3 ms·

The problem is that any hidden variable resolving quantum indeterminacy would have to be non -local, i.e. able to propagate itself faster than light, which woul

The problem is that any hidden variable resolving quantum indeterminacy would have to be non -local, i.e. able to propagate itself faster than light, which would also violate our understanding of the world quite a bit.

llaolleh 3y ago
It won't be the first time our understanding is flipped upside down if such a framework of thought arises.
- phreeza 3y ago
  Yea I don't disagree, just wanted to point out that the hidden variable would not mean that matter actually behaves like a classical mechanics machine.
Legend2440 3y ago
Locality may also be an abstraction. I find it very intriguing that a "speed of light" emerges automatically in Conway's Game of Life. It's not built into the system, but shows up from the convolutional update rule.
- dgfl 3y ago
  Your comparison with Conway's Game of Life is interesting, since that's inherently local. More importantly, I'm skeptical towards non-locality because it is an extremely strong assumption with very weak effects: the only place it really shows up is in post-correlations between measurements of previously entangled systems, which notably cannot transfer any information faster than light (in fact, they require classical communication to even be noticed). Moreover, the only way to get entangled systems in the first place is through local interactions. By believing in non-local hidden variables you get a deterministic universe with a mysterious, otherwise undetectable ether that instantaneously notifies quantum entities that they should update their behavior. By not believing in them, you get rid of the only n on-local "phenomenon" in physics (really, more of an interpretation) but you have to accept that some things are fundamentally random. Easy choice, if you ask me (or most of the physics community).
111111IIIIIII 3y ago
> which would also violate our understanding of the world quite a bit. Are we discussing science or public relations?

llaolleh 3y ago

It won't be the first time our understanding is flipped upside down if such a framework of thought arises.

phreeza 3y ago
Yea I don't disagree, just wanted to point out that the hidden variable would not mean that matter actually behaves like a classical mechanics machine.

Legend2440 3y ago

Locality may also be an abstraction. I find it very intriguing that a "speed of light" emerges automatically in Conway's Game of Life. It's not built into the system, but shows up from the convolutional update rule.

dgfl 3y ago
Your comparison with Conway's Game of Life is interesting, since that's inherently local. More importantly, I'm skeptical towards non-locality because it is an extremely strong assumption with very weak effects: the only place it really shows up is in post-correlations between measurements of previously entangled systems, which notably cannot transfer any information faster than light (in fact, they require classical communication to even be noticed). Moreover, the only way to get entangled systems in the first place is through local interactions. By believing in non-local hidden variables you get a deterministic universe with a mysterious, otherwise undetectable ether that instantaneously notifies quantum entities that they should update their behavior. By not believing in them, you get rid of the only n on-local "phenomenon" in physics (really, more of an interpretation) but you have to accept that some things are fundamentally random. Easy choice, if you ask me (or most of the physics community).

111111IIIIIII 3y ago

> which would also violate our understanding of the world quite a bit. Are we discussing science or public relations?