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> It is crazy how people can even think of collaborating with them. It is not crazy, if you take into account that the genocidal war is very popular among Russ

by hkpack 3y ago

> It is crazy how people can even think of collaborating with them. It is not crazy, if you take into account that the genocidal war is very popular among Russians, and the only complain they have is that it is not going according to their expectations. They blame the top military officials for that and think that wagner will be more efficient in killing Ukrainians.

ivan_gammel 3y ago
Well, the thing is people who supported this raid are not exactly the same as those who support the war. I would understand if they were the same.
hurflmurfl 3y ago
Another option (which I'm partial to) is something like "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Not everyone is on top of who's part of the mercenary company and some people could just see this as "a change", so they would offer some support. Not making a statement of "how things really are" here, just saying that sometimes an explanation might be "jeez, finally there's some change, maybe something will happen out of this" and not "let me go support these genocidal mercenaries".
- sidibe 3y ago
  Yeah I agree. Prigozhin going after the war and saying it was always unjustified yesterday was an olive branch to at least a sizable minority of Russians who are not as GP says supporting a genocidal war. He knows the regime is weak and pulled all the levers he could to make it look weaker and get himself more support. He's not tricking anyone, others know what he is but by suddenly speaking against the war he's signalled clearly they have the same immediate goals. I'd imagine that also went through some conscripted or otherwise unenthusiastic soldiers heads when they decided not to confront his mercenaries. I think Putin expected Russian soldiers to resist when he gave a tough speech last night. They all watched except the air force.
jjtheblunt 3y ago
What published (linkable) basis have you used for these claims?
cinquemb 3y ago
Hardliners in Russia want Putin out and wished Russia had "went fallujah" on Ukraine... Russia still has that option...
- jhartwig 3y ago
  What does that even mean? They tried to go 'fallujah' on Kyiv, it failed miserably. Back during Fallujah, if the locals were loaded with Javelins, things might have turned out differently for them as well.

by hkpack 3y ago

ivan_gammel 3y ago

Well, the thing is people who supported this raid are not exactly the same as those who support the war. I would understand if they were the same.

hurflmurfl 3y ago

Another option (which I'm partial to) is something like "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Not everyone is on top of who's part of the mercenary company and some people could just see this as "a change", so they would offer some support. Not making a statement of "how things really are" here, just saying that sometimes an explanation might be "jeez, finally there's some change, maybe something will happen out of this" and not "let me go support these genocidal mercenaries".

sidibe 3y ago
Yeah I agree. Prigozhin going after the war and saying it was always unjustified yesterday was an olive branch to at least a sizable minority of Russians who are not as GP says supporting a genocidal war. He knows the regime is weak and pulled all the levers he could to make it look weaker and get himself more support. He's not tricking anyone, others know what he is but by suddenly speaking against the war he's signalled clearly they have the same immediate goals. I'd imagine that also went through some conscripted or otherwise unenthusiastic soldiers heads when they decided not to confront his mercenaries. I think Putin expected Russian soldiers to resist when he gave a tough speech last night. They all watched except the air force.

jjtheblunt 3y ago

What published (linkable) basis have you used for these claims?

cinquemb 3y ago

Hardliners in Russia want Putin out and wished Russia had "went fallujah" on Ukraine... Russia still has that option...

jhartwig 3y ago
What does that even mean? They tried to go 'fallujah' on Kyiv, it failed miserably. Back during Fallujah, if the locals were loaded with Javelins, things might have turned out differently for them as well.