11 ms·

This seems like semantics. Presumably they're taking these factors and putting them into some kind of calculation which probably outputs something like a... sco

This seems like semantics. Presumably they're taking these factors and putting them into some kind of calculation which probably outputs something like a... score. Maybe what you are criticizing is a particular input in that calculation? I notice you don't mention repayment of past debts, for example.

ohgodplsno 3y ago
That score doesn't follow you your whole life. There are some files in many countries that list failures to pay off debts, but their access is extremely controlled and subject to verification. My "credit score" exists for 30 minutes while my bank gets my proof of income and ID, and that's it. In the same way, my landlord does not get access to any of these files, because it's none of his business. It is illegal to keep track of individuals like this. In the US, this incentivizes keeping individuals in poverty, and its ease of access means that it is easy for any predatory lending institution to explicitly target people with low credit scores. It creates de facto castes.
- dnissley 3y ago
  What do you make of these findings? https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/are-income-and-credit-scores-highly-correlated-20180813.html https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/are-... As shown in the three panels, credit scores are distributed over the entire support for all three income groups, and, apart from the distribution of the high-income group having a larger mass at the high end of the distribution support, the shapes of the histograms of high- and middle-income groups are broadly consistent. Indeed, even among the high-income consumers, a significant mass of consumers have credit scores lower than 680, commonly known as "nonprime" or "subprime" borrowers.
  - ohgodplsno 3y ago
    That it doesn't matter if Johnny-seven-figures has a bad credit score. It's a non issue to him. Booh hoo he can't borrow to buy a Bugatti Veryon. The lower your income, the worse a credit score affects you. It's reverse means testing, where a bad credit score means you get into loans with higher interest rates which you cannot repay, which gets you worse rates that you cannot repay, etc.
- epcoa 3y ago
  > That score doesn't follow you your whole life. Nor does any score in the US - none of the inputs, even bankruptcy, last more than several years. > In the same way, my landlord does not get access to any of these files, because it's none of his business Your reliability in paying definitely seems like it would be their business. > In the US, this incentivizes keeping individuals in poverty This is not supported by the data.
  - withinboredom 3y ago
    > Nor does any score in the US Hahahaha, that's a fantasy. I got in a motorcycle accident at 18, and had to learn to walk again. You know what I couldn't do during that time? Pay my bills because I couldn't work. You know what I can't get despite making six figures these days? A decent credit card, a car, or a house. I have to pay cash, because going bankrupt at the literal beginning of your life, follows you for life. Sure, the inputs are gone, but the evidence is there. When you go bankrupt and finally get back on your feet and can get credit again, there are only certain types of credit you can get. Eventually, the original negative inputs go away, but the types of credit still tell the same story. It can take decades before you are able to wipe away most of the evidence and get treated with some modicum of trust.
  - ohgodplsno 3y ago
    >Nor does any score in the US - none of the inputs, even bankruptcy, last more than several years. Ah, it's all good then, the completely arbitrary score handled by private companies reselling data on your every move only exists for seven rolling years. >Your reliability in paying definitely seems like it would be their business. Nope. It's law enforcement's business. If I do not pay, they go see the police, and a judge will handle it if necessary. >This is not supported by the data. Yes it is. https://socialchangenyu.com/review/credit-reportings-vicious-cycles/#VIII https://socialchangenyu.com/review/credit-reportings-vicious...
    - epcoa 3y ago
      > Nope. It's law enforcement's business. If I do not pay, they go see the police, and a judge will handle it if necessary. In most of the US failure to pay rent (and virtually all debts) is not a crime.

ohgodplsno 3y ago

That score doesn't follow you your whole life. There are some files in many countries that list failures to pay off debts, but their access is extremely controlled and subject to verification. My "credit score" exists for 30 minutes while my bank gets my proof of income and ID, and that's it. In the same way, my landlord does not get access to any of these files, because it's none of his business. It is illegal to keep track of individuals like this. In the US, this incentivizes keeping individuals in poverty, and its ease of access means that it is easy for any predatory lending institution to explicitly target people with low credit scores. It creates de facto castes.

dnissley 3y ago
What do you make of these findings? https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/are-income-and-credit-scores-highly-correlated-20180813.html https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/are-... As shown in the three panels, credit scores are distributed over the entire support for all three income groups, and, apart from the distribution of the high-income group having a larger mass at the high end of the distribution support, the shapes of the histograms of high- and middle-income groups are broadly consistent. Indeed, even among the high-income consumers, a significant mass of consumers have credit scores lower than 680, commonly known as "nonprime" or "subprime" borrowers.
- ohgodplsno 3y ago
  That it doesn't matter if Johnny-seven-figures has a bad credit score. It's a non issue to him. Booh hoo he can't borrow to buy a Bugatti Veryon. The lower your income, the worse a credit score affects you. It's reverse means testing, where a bad credit score means you get into loans with higher interest rates which you cannot repay, which gets you worse rates that you cannot repay, etc.
epcoa 3y ago
> That score doesn't follow you your whole life. Nor does any score in the US - none of the inputs, even bankruptcy, last more than several years. > In the same way, my landlord does not get access to any of these files, because it's none of his business Your reliability in paying definitely seems like it would be their business. > In the US, this incentivizes keeping individuals in poverty This is not supported by the data.
- withinboredom 3y ago
  > Nor does any score in the US Hahahaha, that's a fantasy. I got in a motorcycle accident at 18, and had to learn to walk again. You know what I couldn't do during that time? Pay my bills because I couldn't work. You know what I can't get despite making six figures these days? A decent credit card, a car, or a house. I have to pay cash, because going bankrupt at the literal beginning of your life, follows you for life. Sure, the inputs are gone, but the evidence is there. When you go bankrupt and finally get back on your feet and can get credit again, there are only certain types of credit you can get. Eventually, the original negative inputs go away, but the types of credit still tell the same story. It can take decades before you are able to wipe away most of the evidence and get treated with some modicum of trust.
- ohgodplsno 3y ago
  >Nor does any score in the US - none of the inputs, even bankruptcy, last more than several years. Ah, it's all good then, the completely arbitrary score handled by private companies reselling data on your every move only exists for seven rolling years. >Your reliability in paying definitely seems like it would be their business. Nope. It's law enforcement's business. If I do not pay, they go see the police, and a judge will handle it if necessary. >This is not supported by the data. Yes it is. https://socialchangenyu.com/review/credit-reportings-vicious-cycles/#VIII https://socialchangenyu.com/review/credit-reportings-vicious...
  - epcoa 3y ago
    > Nope. It's law enforcement's business. If I do not pay, they go see the police, and a judge will handle it if necessary. In most of the US failure to pay rent (and virtually all debts) is not a crime.