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And it's a good thing too since post version 3 mastadon instances do not serve HTML text or images. It's all just a javascript application. The RSS feed is the

And it's a good thing too since post version 3 mastadon instances do not serve HTML text or images. It's all just a javascript application. The RSS feed is the only way to actually access the text of posts without executing an arbitrary application. It'd be nice if there was a "nitter" for twitter but for mastadon(s).

kstrauser 3y ago
Modern web browsers are JavaScript engines that also render stuff. I understood the resistance to running JavaScript 20 years ago, but today, I rank that up there with buying a cell phone but refusing to run 3rd-party apps. The web is JavaScript now.
- Andrex 3y ago
  I have JavaScript disabled by default and enable it on my bookmarks and when necessary on random new websites I visit. I have no problem turning on JS for a web app. I understand Google Maps just couldn't really work how it's expected to without JS. Same for web email clients, or games, or office suits. But if your "app" is just a progressively-enhanced list of posts (e.g., a blog), there is no justification for forced JS usage. Sorry Mastodon. Running JS is a privilege for those with the computing power (or battery capacity) to spare, and turns the browser into the biggest risk vector on whatever machine that browser is installed on.
  - vram22 3y ago
    Or requiring it just to render images. Actually seen some sites that work that way. And these were simple company pages or personal portfolio sites, so no reason why the images could not be static(ally served).
- JdeBP 3y ago
  The part of the WWW that I write and control has zero JavaScript. You tar everyone with a single brush highly erroneously.
berkes 3y ago
Mastodon (with an o, an often made mistake) has an API, which most alternatives (pleroma, gotosocial etc) also implement, partly. Several frontends, including extremely lightweight clients exist for this API. Mastodon furthermore implements the whole server-server ActivityPub standard, which can be used for some actions, like following someone, just fine. This is a very well described standard. Mastodon doesn't implement ActivityPub server-client standard, instead it has the aforementioned selfbrewn "rest" API. Which, IMO is a shame, and has caused all clients (mobile, web, etc) to rely on this nonstandard API. Edit: the point being:there are several ways to get content from Mastodon, depending on usecase and needs. You really don't need to scrape or parse or load the JS cliënt.
- calgarymicro 3y ago
  > Mastodon doesn't implement ActivityPub server-client standard To be fair to Mastodon, the main developer did give a reason for this. > The ActivityPub Client-to-Server spec assumes a thin server and thick client. By which I mean, the client, like an e-mail app, has to download and manage most data from the server. From my understanding that's the only way to make anything like search or username autocomplete or even a notifications tab to work with the C2S at all. In my experience, app developers are generally not excited to do that kind of legwork, and we're entering the kind of P2P territory which comes with its own challenges like the ease of hopping from one device to another, or the fact that to have the same functionality in iOS, Android, and Web, you would need to recreate the heavy-lifting fundamental boilerplate in each separately. For that reason, I am not particularly interested in the C2S part of ActivityPub. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/zqfr4h/comment/j12coxq/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/zqfr4h/comment/j1...
jwilk 3y ago
You may want to give my CLI a try: https://github.com/jwilk/zygolophodon https://github.com/jwilk/zygolophodon
- vram22 3y ago
  Guessed the name was related ;-) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygolophodon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygolophodon
- superkuh 3y ago
  Thanks! While far more tedious than just being able to see HTML in a browser when going to a URL (expected behavior for the last 30 years), zygolophodon does seem like the least worst option. I've now installed it on my newer machines which have python 3.6. For older computers I guess I'll keep appending .rss to the user profile URL and and finding the relevant post by eye (or just ignore mastadon URLs).
Hakkin 3y ago
It seems odd to make some distinction between HTML or RSS and a JSON endpoint. If anything, the JSON endpoint is actually more human readable than the HTML or RSS output, you just have an "arbitrary application" that happens to understand HTML and RSS to display it to you. All of them contain the exact same data, just represented in different ways. For reference, here's the JSON endpoint for the same account as listed in the article: https://mastodon.online/api/v1/accounts/109298336948075673/statuses?exclude_replies=true https://mastodon.online/api/v1/accounts/109298336948075673/s... Firefox has a nice UI for browsing JSON, but Chrome will just give you a text dump. Ironically, Firefox also used to have a nice UI for browsing RSS feeds but they removed it awhile ago.
- CuriousSkeptic 3y ago
  HTML and RSS adds semantic for the HATEOS part of the ReST-ful web. JSON not so much. Your comment could just as well have said SGML or XML instead of JSON which would make the distinction more obvious.
  - M2Ys4U 3y ago
    The underlying ActivityPub endpoints use JSON-LD, which is much more HATEOAS than plain the JSON shown in the link above. If you send an HTTP request with an header of 'Accept: application/activity+json' you get proper machine-readable data out.
    - CuriousSkeptic 3y ago
      Indeed much more applicable then, I stand corrected Given the context I assumed the regular unspecified internal type of JSON commonly used to back SPAs
- fab23 3y ago
  In Firefox use the RSSPreview [1] add-on to get the RSS feed rendering back. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/rsspreview/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/rsspreview/
Andrex 3y ago
I'll bring it up as many times as is necessary: it's disgraceful that Mastodon forces JavaScript to be enabled for viewing (not even usage).
- realitythreek 3y ago
  Practically the entire web forces JavaScript to be enabled. I used to be pretty irate about it but that was 10 years ago and I’m tired.
  - vram22 3y ago
    Practically the entire world is disgraceful then. :) I'm tired too.
- aendruk 3y ago
  Disgraceful is pretty strong but I’ll support absurd. Imagine if every book was delivered as a bespoke inkjet printer.
Reventlov 3y ago
It's spelled mastodon.
- aendruk 3y ago
  The interesting thing about this is that it’s evident that many people don’t use spell check. I find it hard to relate as personally I can’t resist resolving those red underlines.
robobro 3y ago
There are many many third clients that can make use of Mastodon API and Activitypub. There are plaintext web clients such as brutaldon that probably have what you want.
jeroenhd 3y ago
The JS requirement still annoys me. Mastodon is a whole lot faster than Twitter, but it still can't compete with Nitter and that's just rather silly. I'm fine with things like pagination and submitting forms being broken without Javascript, but at least make it possible to view a linked thread. I've been running a Lemmy server or my own for a bit and I have to say, Mastodon just seems so incredibly wasteful. Lemmy's UI may be quite barebones in comparison but the server component runs a lot more efficiently while also providing actual HTML when you ask for content.

kstrauser 3y ago

Modern web browsers are JavaScript engines that also render stuff. I understood the resistance to running JavaScript 20 years ago, but today, I rank that up there with buying a cell phone but refusing to run 3rd-party apps. The web is JavaScript now.

Andrex 3y ago
I have JavaScript disabled by default and enable it on my bookmarks and when necessary on random new websites I visit. I have no problem turning on JS for a web app. I understand Google Maps just couldn't really work how it's expected to without JS. Same for web email clients, or games, or office suits. But if your "app" is just a progressively-enhanced list of posts (e.g., a blog), there is no justification for forced JS usage. Sorry Mastodon. Running JS is a privilege for those with the computing power (or battery capacity) to spare, and turns the browser into the biggest risk vector on whatever machine that browser is installed on.
- vram22 3y ago
  Or requiring it just to render images. Actually seen some sites that work that way. And these were simple company pages or personal portfolio sites, so no reason why the images could not be static(ally served).
JdeBP 3y ago
The part of the WWW that I write and control has zero JavaScript. You tar everyone with a single brush highly erroneously.

berkes 3y ago

Mastodon (with an o, an often made mistake) has an API, which most alternatives (pleroma, gotosocial etc) also implement, partly. Several frontends, including extremely lightweight clients exist for this API. Mastodon furthermore implements the whole server-server ActivityPub standard, which can be used for some actions, like following someone, just fine. This is a very well described standard. Mastodon doesn't implement ActivityPub server-client standard, instead it has the aforementioned selfbrewn "rest" API. Which, IMO is a shame, and has caused all clients (mobile, web, etc) to rely on this nonstandard API. Edit: the point being:there are several ways to get content from Mastodon, depending on usecase and needs. You really don't need to scrape or parse or load the JS cliënt.

calgarymicro 3y ago
> Mastodon doesn't implement ActivityPub server-client standard To be fair to Mastodon, the main developer did give a reason for this. > The ActivityPub Client-to-Server spec assumes a thin server and thick client. By which I mean, the client, like an e-mail app, has to download and manage most data from the server. From my understanding that's the only way to make anything like search or username autocomplete or even a notifications tab to work with the C2S at all. In my experience, app developers are generally not excited to do that kind of legwork, and we're entering the kind of P2P territory which comes with its own challenges like the ease of hopping from one device to another, or the fact that to have the same functionality in iOS, Android, and Web, you would need to recreate the heavy-lifting fundamental boilerplate in each separately. For that reason, I am not particularly interested in the C2S part of ActivityPub. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/zqfr4h/comment/j12coxq/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/zqfr4h/comment/j1...

jwilk 3y ago

You may want to give my CLI a try: https://github.com/jwilk/zygolophodon https://github.com/jwilk/zygolophodon

vram22 3y ago
Guessed the name was related ;-) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygolophodon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygolophodon
superkuh 3y ago
Thanks! While far more tedious than just being able to see HTML in a browser when going to a URL (expected behavior for the last 30 years), zygolophodon does seem like the least worst option. I've now installed it on my newer machines which have python 3.6. For older computers I guess I'll keep appending .rss to the user profile URL and and finding the relevant post by eye (or just ignore mastadon URLs).

Hakkin 3y ago

It seems odd to make some distinction between HTML or RSS and a JSON endpoint. If anything, the JSON endpoint is actually more human readable than the HTML or RSS output, you just have an "arbitrary application" that happens to understand HTML and RSS to display it to you. All of them contain the exact same data, just represented in different ways. For reference, here's the JSON endpoint for the same account as listed in the article: https://mastodon.online/api/v1/accounts/109298336948075673/statuses?exclude_replies=true https://mastodon.online/api/v1/accounts/109298336948075673/s... Firefox has a nice UI for browsing JSON, but Chrome will just give you a text dump. Ironically, Firefox also used to have a nice UI for browsing RSS feeds but they removed it awhile ago.

CuriousSkeptic 3y ago
HTML and RSS adds semantic for the HATEOS part of the ReST-ful web. JSON not so much. Your comment could just as well have said SGML or XML instead of JSON which would make the distinction more obvious.
- M2Ys4U 3y ago
  The underlying ActivityPub endpoints use JSON-LD, which is much more HATEOAS than plain the JSON shown in the link above. If you send an HTTP request with an header of 'Accept: application/activity+json' you get proper machine-readable data out.
  - CuriousSkeptic 3y ago
    Indeed much more applicable then, I stand corrected Given the context I assumed the regular unspecified internal type of JSON commonly used to back SPAs
fab23 3y ago
In Firefox use the RSSPreview [1] add-on to get the RSS feed rendering back. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/rsspreview/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/rsspreview/

Andrex 3y ago

I'll bring it up as many times as is necessary: it's disgraceful that Mastodon forces JavaScript to be enabled for viewing (not even usage).

realitythreek 3y ago
Practically the entire web forces JavaScript to be enabled. I used to be pretty irate about it but that was 10 years ago and I’m tired.
- vram22 3y ago
  Practically the entire world is disgraceful then. :) I'm tired too.
aendruk 3y ago
Disgraceful is pretty strong but I’ll support absurd. Imagine if every book was delivered as a bespoke inkjet printer.

Reventlov 3y ago

It's spelled mastodon.

aendruk 3y ago
The interesting thing about this is that it’s evident that many people don’t use spell check. I find it hard to relate as personally I can’t resist resolving those red underlines.

robobro 3y ago

There are many many third clients that can make use of Mastodon API and Activitypub. There are plaintext web clients such as brutaldon that probably have what you want.

jeroenhd 3y ago

The JS requirement still annoys me. Mastodon is a whole lot faster than Twitter, but it still can't compete with Nitter and that's just rather silly. I'm fine with things like pagination and submitting forms being broken without Javascript, but at least make it possible to view a linked thread. I've been running a Lemmy server or my own for a bit and I have to say, Mastodon just seems so incredibly wasteful. Lemmy's UI may be quite barebones in comparison but the server component runs a lot more efficiently while also providing actual HTML when you ask for content.