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I think it would be hard to argue that Ireland at that time was a "great, industrialized society" of any sort.

pydry 3y ago
It was run by such a society - the British. Capitalism was even cited as a justification at the time. If the "market" decided to export food while the Irish starved... well, thats ok. Market knows best. It essentially mirrored the Holodomor - an occupying power exports all the food from an agrarian colony during a bad harvest. Famine happens. Occupying power shrugs. People wonder if it was a covert attempt at ethnic cleansing. Probably it was. The difference is that the Irish famine was oh, just a big whoopsie while the Holodomor was an evil plot.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  Other than the reality of British occupation, I think most of what you said was provably wrong. For example... > The difference is that the Irish famine was just a big whoopsie while the Holodomor was an evil plot. Have you heard of Charles Trevelyan? He was in charge of relief efforts during the famine, but he had a different take on the issue which informed British policy. In his words: “The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people.” The Famine was a natural disaster which would have led to some amount of starvation and death, but that natural disaster was GREATLY enhanced by British elites who saw it as a convenient and "natural" solution to Irish overpopulation. In many ways it shares the hallmarks of the Holodomor, with "we care about trade" used as a cover for genocide.
  - pydry 3y ago
    You seem to be agreeing with everything I wrote apart from the sarcasm.
kibwen 3y ago
In 1760 the Industrial Revolution began in Great Britain, in 1801 Ireland joined with Great Britain to form the United Kingdom, and in 1845 the great famine began in the United Kingdom, specifically in Ireland. I'm afraid this feels like moving the goalposts; famine is always going to hit agricultural areas the hardest in any trade-capable country, because even though everyone else still needs food, everyone else still has things to trade for food (and if the agricultural laborers still had anything to trade, there wouldn't be a famine to begin with). It's a bit like saying that the Dust Bowl didn't happen in the industrialized nation of the United States because it happened in Oklahoma.
ffgjgf1 3y ago
Fact is that the famine could have easily be averted or at least reduced to a huge extent by the government.

It was run by such a society - the British. Capitalism was even cited as a justification at the time. If the "market" decided to export food while the Irish starved... well, thats ok. Market knows best. It essentially mirrored the Holodomor - an occupying power exports all the food from an agrarian colony during a bad harvest. Famine happens. Occupying power shrugs. People wonder if it was a covert attempt at ethnic cleansing. Probably it was. The difference is that the Irish famine was oh, just a big whoopsie while the Holodomor was an evil plot.

EA-3167 3y ago
Other than the reality of British occupation, I think most of what you said was provably wrong. For example... > The difference is that the Irish famine was just a big whoopsie while the Holodomor was an evil plot. Have you heard of Charles Trevelyan? He was in charge of relief efforts during the famine, but he had a different take on the issue which informed British policy. In his words: “The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people.” The Famine was a natural disaster which would have led to some amount of starvation and death, but that natural disaster was GREATLY enhanced by British elites who saw it as a convenient and "natural" solution to Irish overpopulation. In many ways it shares the hallmarks of the Holodomor, with "we care about trade" used as a cover for genocide.
- pydry 3y ago
  You seem to be agreeing with everything I wrote apart from the sarcasm.

kibwen 3y ago

In 1760 the Industrial Revolution began in Great Britain, in 1801 Ireland joined with Great Britain to form the United Kingdom, and in 1845 the great famine began in the United Kingdom, specifically in Ireland. I'm afraid this feels like moving the goalposts; famine is always going to hit agricultural areas the hardest in any trade-capable country, because even though everyone else still needs food, everyone else still has things to trade for food (and if the agricultural laborers still had anything to trade, there wouldn't be a famine to begin with). It's a bit like saying that the Dust Bowl didn't happen in the industrialized nation of the United States because it happened in Oklahoma.

ffgjgf1 3y ago

Fact is that the famine could have easily be averted or at least reduced to a huge extent by the government.