5 ms·

China, I guess.

LightBug1 3y ago
-10 for mentioning China and/or reputation-scoring in a relatively negative fashion. Your credit score has decreased accordingly. Have a lovey day, citizen, and do better tomorrow!
- FooBarWidget 3y ago
  This tongue-in-cheeck dig on China may actually mean something if it weren't for the fact that the social credit system, as depicted by the media, doesn't actually exist. It's wholly an invention of the media to project our own fears on. This article goes in-depth about what the actual situation is: https://www.spectator.co.uk/podcast/social-credit-system/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/podcast/social-credit-system/ The bigger story is why people are so receptive to such stories, and why the media keep writing them, even though they're false.
  - newacct3 3y ago
    The author of that article grew up in China and likely has familial ties there, one could argue that those factors discourage them from honest criticism
    - FooBarWidget 3y ago
      There are more accounts that corroborate that the social credit system as depicted by the media is a myth, like Vincent Brussee who is German: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-system-authoritarian/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-sys...
  - LightBug1 3y ago
    It was actually a tongue-in-cheek dig at a near future ... and one that is likely here already. While you dismiss the stories, I think they point to exactly how insidious it is. The 'social credit system' is not one overarching system. Which leads to you and the Spectator to dismiss it, it will be the analysis of accumulated data that, in effect, amount to the same thing. Your comment that the social credit system 'doesn't actually exist' is woefully naive. No disrespect. You did caveat that by saying 'as depicted by the media'. And, in general, you would be right. But, in this case, the stories that are pedalled by the media (99% unintentional, I'm sure) serve as a useful metaphor for the wider public that don't scratch the surface of these topics. That's a horrible way to communicate, but in the absence of any other education, I'll take it. Citizens should rightly be very cautious of anything resembling, or amounting to (in aggregate), a social credit system. My gut says you'd agree.
    - FooBarWidget 3y ago
      Your response reads to me as that which I already pointed out: the "Chinese social credit" myth is appealing not because it's factually true but because it's something we use to project our fears on. You dread the prospects of the myth coming true in your home country. Okay, fair. But you are also saying that that dread justifies making false, exaggerated or distorted assertions about China because the end (combating the myth from becoming true) justifies such means. That I disagree with. I am Chinese. China has been demonized enough in this cold war already. China shouldn't be collatoral damage in your fight against the myth from becoming true. Such myths have real consequences for Asian people even living outside China. Anti-Asian violence is at an all-time high because the public is fed daily with the narrative that China is some evil empire that's out to get all of us. This creates an environment of paranoia in which real people get hurt. Chinese scientists abroad are being harassed because they "could have links to the CCP" or other bullshit like that. Sure, protest against the prospects of the myths, that's fine. But that's no excuse for misrepresenting China. One can, and should, protest against the prospects of social credit while also acknowledging that the story about China is largely false.
      - LightBug1 3y ago
        As I implied, communication via "myth" is horrible. But that is reality. I don't support it, but you can either direct that myth or be the victim of it. With regards to China, as I said, the social credit system is already well advanced (in the aggregate). Similarly, it is where I am - in the UK. People who ignore it are just comfortable in our situation and are not yet feeling the consequences. Some, at the margin, already are. Lastly, and I would hope the following is obvious ... but right minded people are not against the bulk of Chinese people who are families just getting on with their lives. But, it's the usual story. I have very serious issues with the Chinese state as an authoritarian machine, it's policies, it's actions. I will not support it on many things, and will call it out. Just as I will not support specific Chinese people who support that state apparatus. And we're not talking about myth here. Generalised prejudiced, violence, racism is unacceptable ... criticism of the state, and those who support it, is fair game. When my government does things I don't support, I absolutely castigate them. I'm pleased I can just about still do that (though our right to protest is slowly being eroded here). Just as I would attack the Chinese government. The UK is demonized abroad in areas and I accept that also. This is global politics. You can hide from it, or accept what it is. Sorry, we can't pussy foot around about what lipstick each country is wearing or the impact on people. That has, and will happen. It's incredibly difficult to avoid. This is why it is odd to me. You seem interested in the view of Chinese abroad than the actual wrong itself. That's lame to me. Let's get to it. Let's talk about the Uyghurs. I'm interested in your views on state treatment of them. Or is that a misrepresentation too?

China, I guess.

-10 for mentioning China and/or reputation-scoring in a relatively negative fashion. Your credit score has decreased accordingly. Have a lovey day, citizen, and do better tomorrow!

FooBarWidget 3y ago
This tongue-in-cheeck dig on China may actually mean something if it weren't for the fact that the social credit system, as depicted by the media, doesn't actually exist. It's wholly an invention of the media to project our own fears on. This article goes in-depth about what the actual situation is: https://www.spectator.co.uk/podcast/social-credit-system/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/podcast/social-credit-system/ The bigger story is why people are so receptive to such stories, and why the media keep writing them, even though they're false.
- newacct3 3y ago
  The author of that article grew up in China and likely has familial ties there, one could argue that those factors discourage them from honest criticism
  - FooBarWidget 3y ago
    There are more accounts that corroborate that the social credit system as depicted by the media is a myth, like Vincent Brussee who is German: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-system-authoritarian/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-sys...
- LightBug1 3y ago
  It was actually a tongue-in-cheek dig at a near future ... and one that is likely here already. While you dismiss the stories, I think they point to exactly how insidious it is. The 'social credit system' is not one overarching system. Which leads to you and the Spectator to dismiss it, it will be the analysis of accumulated data that, in effect, amount to the same thing. Your comment that the social credit system 'doesn't actually exist' is woefully naive. No disrespect. You did caveat that by saying 'as depicted by the media'. And, in general, you would be right. But, in this case, the stories that are pedalled by the media (99% unintentional, I'm sure) serve as a useful metaphor for the wider public that don't scratch the surface of these topics. That's a horrible way to communicate, but in the absence of any other education, I'll take it. Citizens should rightly be very cautious of anything resembling, or amounting to (in aggregate), a social credit system. My gut says you'd agree.
  - FooBarWidget 3y ago
    Your response reads to me as that which I already pointed out: the "Chinese social credit" myth is appealing not because it's factually true but because it's something we use to project our fears on. You dread the prospects of the myth coming true in your home country. Okay, fair. But you are also saying that that dread justifies making false, exaggerated or distorted assertions about China because the end (combating the myth from becoming true) justifies such means. That I disagree with. I am Chinese. China has been demonized enough in this cold war already. China shouldn't be collatoral damage in your fight against the myth from becoming true. Such myths have real consequences for Asian people even living outside China. Anti-Asian violence is at an all-time high because the public is fed daily with the narrative that China is some evil empire that's out to get all of us. This creates an environment of paranoia in which real people get hurt. Chinese scientists abroad are being harassed because they "could have links to the CCP" or other bullshit like that. Sure, protest against the prospects of the myths, that's fine. But that's no excuse for misrepresenting China. One can, and should, protest against the prospects of social credit while also acknowledging that the story about China is largely false.
    - LightBug1 3y ago
      As I implied, communication via "myth" is horrible. But that is reality. I don't support it, but you can either direct that myth or be the victim of it. With regards to China, as I said, the social credit system is already well advanced (in the aggregate). Similarly, it is where I am - in the UK. People who ignore it are just comfortable in our situation and are not yet feeling the consequences. Some, at the margin, already are. Lastly, and I would hope the following is obvious ... but right minded people are not against the bulk of Chinese people who are families just getting on with their lives. But, it's the usual story. I have very serious issues with the Chinese state as an authoritarian machine, it's policies, it's actions. I will not support it on many things, and will call it out. Just as I will not support specific Chinese people who support that state apparatus. And we're not talking about myth here. Generalised prejudiced, violence, racism is unacceptable ... criticism of the state, and those who support it, is fair game. When my government does things I don't support, I absolutely castigate them. I'm pleased I can just about still do that (though our right to protest is slowly being eroded here). Just as I would attack the Chinese government. The UK is demonized abroad in areas and I accept that also. This is global politics. You can hide from it, or accept what it is. Sorry, we can't pussy foot around about what lipstick each country is wearing or the impact on people. That has, and will happen. It's incredibly difficult to avoid. This is why it is odd to me. You seem interested in the view of Chinese abroad than the actual wrong itself. That's lame to me. Let's get to it. Let's talk about the Uyghurs. I'm interested in your views on state treatment of them. Or is that a misrepresentation too?