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Venezuela was gang-ridden. Their "economy" consisted of "you go outside to try to trade money for goods and services, some punk comes along and demands all your

by derefr 3y ago

Venezuela was gang-ridden. Their "economy" consisted of "you go outside to try to trade money for goods and services, some punk comes along and demands all your money and all their goods, you both go home empty-handed." Nobody was bothering to run businesses, because their productive output would all go toward — as economics would put it — "illegitimate rent-seekers." No change in economic system would have made this better. They needed to get rid of the gangs. And they did. Things are getting better there now, though there's a delay, as people still need to start and ramp up the productive businesses that were infeasible under the gangs.

Firmwarrior 3y ago
What did they do to control the gangs? Send out the Fist of the North Star?
- dmix 3y ago
  The Venezulan gov simply co-opted the gangs and now uses them as hit squads, anti-protest 'police', surveillance/intelligence agents in local communities, etc. Also whenever there are elections each member is required to go around the slums and force a bunch of people to vote for Maduro so he stays in power and keeps paying them $$. > Every member of a colectivo is required to bring ten individuals to vote at polls during elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectivo_(Venezuela) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectivo_(Venezuela)
- bacchus123 3y ago
  They send Super Bigote
tarruda 3y ago
> Things are getting better there now Do you have a source for this? Last I read about the situation (maybe a couple of months ago) Venezuela had the biggest inflation in the world.
JoeAltmaier 3y ago
Their economy consisted of bad oil, exported, and fracking made that a no-go. They'd 'privatized' their farms so that meant, no domestic food production as the 'new' farmers had not the training, equipment nor funds to run a farm operation. So food imports became unaffordable as oil exports dried up. Food riots and instability. Is that when the gangs came in? I imagine.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
abrichr 3y ago
> They needed to get rid of the gangs. And they did. Can you please provide a source? I tried to find one but was unsuccessful. From https://insightcrime.org/news/venezuelas-reliance-brutal-futile-gang-crackdowns https://insightcrime.org/news/venezuelas-reliance-brutal-fut... : > While there is substantial evidence of how these mega-operations have caused widespread abuses of the civilian population, it is unclear if they have been an effective security strategy.
jvmfjvfjvf 3y ago
"Price controls and the seizure of farms and factories by the government led to food shortages." -NPR
justrealist 3y ago
You understand that before Hugo Chávez was in power, Venezuela was (1) middle-income and (2) relatively safe? Maybe the gangs were a problem in 2022 but that was a consequence of economic collapse and the government relying on armed thugs for security, not the cause.
- spamizbad 3y ago
  Venezuela might've been middle income in the late 70s and early 80s but it struggled in the 90s. Chávez rose to power in the wake of an economic crisis that kept getting worse throughout the 90s for Venezuela. He didn't come out of nowhere. Chávez screwed Venezuela over long-term, but per-capita GDP rose sharply in the aughts[1] (at least according to the World Bank). The lesson here is you should generally optimize your economic policy for broad economic prosperity - concentrating economic benefits to specific population cliques (be they socialist or capitalist) is a breeding ground for instability, authoritarianism and economic turmoil. [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/VEN/venezuela/gdp-per-capita https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/VEN/venezuela/gdp-per-...
landemva 3y ago
El Salvador in the past year is locking up gang members. Supposedly it is working to reduce crime, though I haven't been there to see it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-65596471 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-65596471
airgapstopgap 3y ago
Are you perhaps confusing Venezuela with El Salvador?
tim333 3y ago
I'm not sure they had food shortages before Chavez. He was famous for 'redistributing' farms that produced loads of food and giving them to a few impoverished locals who the produced close to no food for sale.

by derefr 3y ago

Firmwarrior 3y ago

What did they do to control the gangs? Send out the Fist of the North Star?

dmix 3y ago
The Venezulan gov simply co-opted the gangs and now uses them as hit squads, anti-protest 'police', surveillance/intelligence agents in local communities, etc. Also whenever there are elections each member is required to go around the slums and force a bunch of people to vote for Maduro so he stays in power and keeps paying them $$. > Every member of a colectivo is required to bring ten individuals to vote at polls during elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectivo_(Venezuela) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectivo_(Venezuela)
bacchus123 3y ago
They send Super Bigote

tarruda 3y ago

> Things are getting better there now Do you have a source for this? Last I read about the situation (maybe a couple of months ago) Venezuela had the biggest inflation in the world.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago

Their economy consisted of bad oil, exported, and fracking made that a no-go. They'd 'privatized' their farms so that meant, no domestic food production as the 'new' farmers had not the training, equipment nor funds to run a farm operation. So food imports became unaffordable as oil exports dried up. Food riots and instability. Is that when the gangs came in? I imagine.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

abrichr 3y ago

> They needed to get rid of the gangs. And they did. Can you please provide a source? I tried to find one but was unsuccessful. From https://insightcrime.org/news/venezuelas-reliance-brutal-futile-gang-crackdowns https://insightcrime.org/news/venezuelas-reliance-brutal-fut... : > While there is substantial evidence of how these mega-operations have caused widespread abuses of the civilian population, it is unclear if they have been an effective security strategy.

jvmfjvfjvf 3y ago

"Price controls and the seizure of farms and factories by the government led to food shortages." -NPR

justrealist 3y ago

You understand that before Hugo Chávez was in power, Venezuela was (1) middle-income and (2) relatively safe? Maybe the gangs were a problem in 2022 but that was a consequence of economic collapse and the government relying on armed thugs for security, not the cause.

spamizbad 3y ago
Venezuela might've been middle income in the late 70s and early 80s but it struggled in the 90s. Chávez rose to power in the wake of an economic crisis that kept getting worse throughout the 90s for Venezuela. He didn't come out of nowhere. Chávez screwed Venezuela over long-term, but per-capita GDP rose sharply in the aughts[1] (at least according to the World Bank). The lesson here is you should generally optimize your economic policy for broad economic prosperity - concentrating economic benefits to specific population cliques (be they socialist or capitalist) is a breeding ground for instability, authoritarianism and economic turmoil. [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/VEN/venezuela/gdp-per-capita https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/VEN/venezuela/gdp-per-...

landemva 3y ago

El Salvador in the past year is locking up gang members. Supposedly it is working to reduce crime, though I haven't been there to see it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-65596471 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-65596471

airgapstopgap 3y ago

Are you perhaps confusing Venezuela with El Salvador?

tim333 3y ago

I'm not sure they had food shortages before Chavez. He was famous for 'redistributing' farms that produced loads of food and giving them to a few impoverished locals who the produced close to no food for sale.