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I would expect an article title like this to be backed up by some dramatic increase in healthcare availability (like free healthcare in the U.S.) but no, it's j

by Kapura 3y ago

I would expect an article title like this to be backed up by some dramatic increase in healthcare availability (like free healthcare in the U.S.) but no, it's just the people at the high end have access to better care than ever before. Hooray.

scarby2 3y ago
Except the high end will actually be the majority of the US population who don't have issues affording healthcare. Would I like to make things better for the bottom third? Absolutely. Am I happy about progress made that will improve the life of the rest of us? Also yes.
- Ma8ee 3y ago
  The majority can only afford healthcare while they are healthy. Being insured doesn’t protect you from bankruptcy when you get sick.
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  We can have all of this without a for profit health system though. The middle class are the ones being squeezed here.
- SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
  I would say I make way more than the vast majority of Americans, and I still worry about medical expenses. Many insurance companies tend to either fight you on payments or force you to pay upfront and then reimburse, meaning a lack of significant cash on hand is a serious concern…
- xmprt 3y ago
  Unless you have at least $10k of liquid savings, you're one medical emergency away from bankruptcy. I have great employer sponsored healthcare and still had to pay around $1k for a kidney ultrasound that didn't find anything and a 30 minute zoom call with my PCP.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lkbm 3y ago
    Debt, not bankruptcy.
  - scarby2 3y ago
    I'm a bit late replying but it depends what your out of pocket maximum is. Mine I think is $2000. It's usually high deductible health plans that have high maximums, generally I'd refuse to with for a place where that was all they offered.
AlchemistCamp 3y ago
Nothing is free. Even where health care is extremely generously subsidized, there are tradeoffs. People over certain ages or in various categories are refused services, including life-saving ones like dialysis. Many of them pay to go to American hospitals for treatment. Ultimately, the supply of healthcare is increasing, but still finite. The demand for healthcare is unlimited.
- totallywrong 3y ago
  There are countries with universal health care (e.g. Spain) where you will never be denied any treatment, and it's "free" (obviously the active workforce pays a social security tax) and available to everyone.
  - AlchemistCamp 3y ago
    That’s not what Amnesty International’s report said: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/04/spain-cruel-austerity-measures-leave-patients-suffering/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/04/spain-cruel-a... Your claim is fundamentally impossible. Regardless of what kind of system is used to subsidize care, there’s still a problem of allocating limited resources. It’s always a tradeoff between prices (or levels of subsidization), eligibility requirements and, at the margins, waiting times. The desire for health care is virtually limitless. Spain could literally spend its entire GDP on medical care and not meet everyone’s needs.
    - totallywrong 3y ago
      Eh, come on, don't give me some old article talking about anecdotes in exceptional times of crisis, just to substantiate your point about a system you've never experienced and have no clue about.
melling 3y ago
Strange, it was exactly what I expected: “We may be on the cusp of an era of astonishing innovation” One of us must have developed a flawed model of the world in which we live. A lot of innovation starts off expensive then becomes much cheaper, and more prevalent, over time. Do we agree on this model? Electric vehicles, televisions, computers, DNA sequencing,… The “astonishing innovation” developed today will be everywhere within a decade.
refurb 3y ago
Around 14% of people don’t have insurance in the US, of those that do, these new technologies are available to most people with insurance including Medicaid (for the poor) and Medicare (for the elderly). And access to these technologies is much faster than most healthcare systems in the world.
- Kapura 3y ago
  ...in a country where people routinely don't call ambulances because they are afraid they can't afford them. Do you see the gap here?
  - refurb 3y ago
    Can you provide a link to the survey that suggests people routinely don't call ambulances? I mean, 85% are insured and ambulances are paid for.

by Kapura 3y ago

scarby2 3y ago

Except the high end will actually be the majority of the US population who don't have issues affording healthcare. Would I like to make things better for the bottom third? Absolutely. Am I happy about progress made that will improve the life of the rest of us? Also yes.

Ma8ee 3y ago
The majority can only afford healthcare while they are healthy. Being insured doesn’t protect you from bankruptcy when you get sick.
candiddevmike 3y ago
We can have all of this without a for profit health system though. The middle class are the ones being squeezed here.
SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
I would say I make way more than the vast majority of Americans, and I still worry about medical expenses. Many insurance companies tend to either fight you on payments or force you to pay upfront and then reimburse, meaning a lack of significant cash on hand is a serious concern…
xmprt 3y ago
Unless you have at least $10k of liquid savings, you're one medical emergency away from bankruptcy. I have great employer sponsored healthcare and still had to pay around $1k for a kidney ultrasound that didn't find anything and a 30 minute zoom call with my PCP.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lkbm 3y ago
  Debt, not bankruptcy.
- scarby2 3y ago
  I'm a bit late replying but it depends what your out of pocket maximum is. Mine I think is $2000. It's usually high deductible health plans that have high maximums, generally I'd refuse to with for a place where that was all they offered.

AlchemistCamp 3y ago

Nothing is free. Even where health care is extremely generously subsidized, there are tradeoffs. People over certain ages or in various categories are refused services, including life-saving ones like dialysis. Many of them pay to go to American hospitals for treatment. Ultimately, the supply of healthcare is increasing, but still finite. The demand for healthcare is unlimited.

totallywrong 3y ago
There are countries with universal health care (e.g. Spain) where you will never be denied any treatment, and it's "free" (obviously the active workforce pays a social security tax) and available to everyone.
- AlchemistCamp 3y ago
  That’s not what Amnesty International’s report said: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/04/spain-cruel-austerity-measures-leave-patients-suffering/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/04/spain-cruel-a... Your claim is fundamentally impossible. Regardless of what kind of system is used to subsidize care, there’s still a problem of allocating limited resources. It’s always a tradeoff between prices (or levels of subsidization), eligibility requirements and, at the margins, waiting times. The desire for health care is virtually limitless. Spain could literally spend its entire GDP on medical care and not meet everyone’s needs.
  - totallywrong 3y ago
    Eh, come on, don't give me some old article talking about anecdotes in exceptional times of crisis, just to substantiate your point about a system you've never experienced and have no clue about.

melling 3y ago

Strange, it was exactly what I expected: “We may be on the cusp of an era of astonishing innovation” One of us must have developed a flawed model of the world in which we live. A lot of innovation starts off expensive then becomes much cheaper, and more prevalent, over time. Do we agree on this model? Electric vehicles, televisions, computers, DNA sequencing,… The “astonishing innovation” developed today will be everywhere within a decade.

refurb 3y ago

Around 14% of people don’t have insurance in the US, of those that do, these new technologies are available to most people with insurance including Medicaid (for the poor) and Medicare (for the elderly). And access to these technologies is much faster than most healthcare systems in the world.

Kapura 3y ago
...in a country where people routinely don't call ambulances because they are afraid they can't afford them. Do you see the gap here?
- refurb 3y ago
  Can you provide a link to the survey that suggests people routinely don't call ambulances? I mean, 85% are insured and ambulances are paid for.