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> Another fan and avid reader of my comment history, deciding to comment directly to me about it. No, we both just happen to read and comment on a lot of Masto

by lapcat 3y ago

> Another fan and avid reader of my comment history, deciding to comment directly to me about it. No, we both just happen to read and comment on a lot of Mastodon stories here, myself because I'm a Mastodon user, and you because... well, I don't understand your obsession with Mastodon. Anyway, I have a pretty good memory, and I remember discussing/arguing with you before in the comments of Mastodon stories. > The graph omits the entire history of Mastodon users before Oct. 2022, and it has been around since 2016. Not 2022. Thus, It is not early days and my point still stands. Again, nobody here said it was early days, so your point has no point. > That's the problem with that figure and it is still unimpressive in 8 years. "unimpressive" is a matter of opinion and perspective. I'm impressed that most of my community has migrated. This didn't happen with app.net back in the 2010s, unfortunately, which I'm still sad about and consider a missed opportunity, because app.net was superior to Mastodon in a number of ways. I never wanted 220M people to migrate to Mastodon. You can cackle to yourself that Mastodon didn't become the "New Twitter", and perhaps some people out there in the world believed it would be, but I'm not one of them, and nobody here appears to be one, so you're just inserting irrelevant dunks against your perceived foes into this discussion. Mastodon is not a failure for not having become the New Twitter, with hundreds of millions of users. I see no indication that Eugen Rochko ever had that goal in mind. Mastodon is a thriving community. It's a much smaller community than Twitter, which is fine and good. Mastodon is certainly not perfect, and it could use some improvements, but IMO attracting hundreds of millions of users would wreck everything that's good about it.

rvz 3y ago
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- lapcat 3y ago
  > I'm not the one cheerleading over any mass Twitter migrations to Mastodon with normal users Again you keep rambling, obsessed about this thing that's irrelevant to the linked article and the comments here. > as much as your are or using anecdotes and fantasies which can be easily dismissed. I have no idea what you're talking about. > we both know that logicprog didn't show the whole timeline since 2016. Yes, logicprog gave the link https://mastodon-analytics.com/ https://mastodon-analytics.com/ that has stats from Oct 22 to June 23, which is not the full history of Mastodon. But so what? logicprog didn't make any historical claims. I'm guessing that logicprog perhaps just googled for that link, and it came up in the search results. I have no insight into the design of that website. > You just don't like the fact that what I said is true. I don't even understand what I'm supposed to not like? I've already stated clearly, several times that I like the fact that Mastodon is much smaller than Twitter. > Mastodon users (and its die hards) know that it has been there for 7 - 8 years. Yes, this is an indisputable empirical fact. So what? > Then 'finally' other users took a look at it in November 2022, left and didn't look back hence the 'slump' in users. I personally joined in late 2022 and stayed. > It is still unimpressive. In comparison, Nostr has 3M total signed up in less than a year. [0] I don't quite understand how nostr defines "users", but in any case, from your own link: Users: 318,981 Trusted users: 82,323 Daily active users: between 7000 and 9000 Weekly active users: between 18,000 and 20,000 And the retention of users, 30 days after signup is pretty close to 0%. So I'm at a total loss about what you're celebrating. > Now when tested in November 2022, normal users tried it, weren't impressed and left It's not clear that "normal" users even tried it. Mastodon never had 200 million accounts at any time, or anywhere close to that number. By the way, lots of people also try Twitter and abandon it. That's par for the course on any social network. > In principle, it is a failure. Even Eugen knows this paradox. Following the UX failure of being unable to onboard normal users from Twitter to Mastodon, they chose a 'default instance' to sign up in the official mobile app. I wouldn't say that's an in principle failure. It's an issue, to be sure, and as I said, Mastodon "could use some improvements". But the goal was never to migrate and onboard every Twitter user, so the onboarding difficulties don't make the project a failure. It's a thriving community nonetheless. > The problem is however, whilst everyone was too focused on Twitter's death which didn't happen last year I would replace "everyone" with "you". ;-)
  - rvz 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - lapcat 3y ago
      > You seems to be a bit frustrated yourself by the fact that there was little to no such adoption in the first place after showing those links right in front of you. How many times do I have to say that I'm happy with the current size of Mastodon? > I thought you said you had a 'good memory'? This has nothing to do with memory. You made vague, almost nonsensical accusations. > We all know that the vast majority of normal users (not techies, developers, etc) have tried it, aired their frustrations and left and didn't stick around. Absurdly false. There's no evidence whatsoever that hundreds of millions of people have tried Mastodon. That's such a bizarre claim, especially since you continue to talk about how you think the total number of Mastodon accounts ever created is low. > But clearly you refuse to acknowledge that and continue to ignore the centralization and corruption risks with Meta's backroom NDAs with instance admins. This may be the first relevant thing you've said. Except I'm 100% opposed to Facebook's P92 project. > Yet the majority of the normal users (220M+) on Twitter took a look at Mastodon, tried it, left and never looked back again. Whether they "looked" at Mastodon, I couldn't say (and neither can you), but I can say that the majority of Twitter users didn't try it. Do 200M people even have the motivation to try Mastodon? > But for perspective of that figure, it seems that Nostr reached that 'total number' quicker than Mastodon did in less than 7 years. There's an obvious reason for that, the elephant in the room. The Mastodon and Nostr signups both mostly occurred after Elon Musk acquired Twitter. > Is that why you haven't replied to this comment [1] who is asking whether if there is even evidence of 'over a million regular users?' (non-techies) using it? Why do you take "regular" from the other commenter to mean "non-techie" as opposed to "frequent"? According to https://joinmastodon.org/about https://joinmastodon.org/about there are 1.2M monthly active users. There are no demographic surveys of Mastodon, so I have no idea how many are "techie" or "non-techie", nor do I care. > Mastodon was meant to challenge that during the so-called #TwitterMigration outrage as that alternative for normal users. What do you mean Mastodon was "meant" for that? As you continue to say, Mastodon was created in 2016. The so-called #TwitterMigration was a result of Elon Musk acquiring Twitter in 2022. Unless you're claiming that Eugen Rochko magically predicted this acquisition 6 years prior, Mastodon was not meant for that. The simple fact is that after Musk acquired Twitter, a significant number of people including myself were looking for an alternative to Twitter, and they found it with Mastodon. You seem overly concerned about what happened with Mastodon from 2016-2021, but I don't really care about that. Yes, Mastodon had relatively low adoption before the Musk acquisition. So what? > given that you're were part of the Twitter collapse nonsense on HN last year. But you knew that already. Citation needed.

by lapcat 3y ago

rvz 3y ago

[flagged]

lapcat 3y ago
> I'm not the one cheerleading over any mass Twitter migrations to Mastodon with normal users Again you keep rambling, obsessed about this thing that's irrelevant to the linked article and the comments here. > as much as your are or using anecdotes and fantasies which can be easily dismissed. I have no idea what you're talking about. > we both know that logicprog didn't show the whole timeline since 2016. Yes, logicprog gave the link https://mastodon-analytics.com/ https://mastodon-analytics.com/ that has stats from Oct 22 to June 23, which is not the full history of Mastodon. But so what? logicprog didn't make any historical claims. I'm guessing that logicprog perhaps just googled for that link, and it came up in the search results. I have no insight into the design of that website. > You just don't like the fact that what I said is true. I don't even understand what I'm supposed to not like? I've already stated clearly, several times that I like the fact that Mastodon is much smaller than Twitter. > Mastodon users (and its die hards) know that it has been there for 7 - 8 years. Yes, this is an indisputable empirical fact. So what? > Then 'finally' other users took a look at it in November 2022, left and didn't look back hence the 'slump' in users. I personally joined in late 2022 and stayed. > It is still unimpressive. In comparison, Nostr has 3M total signed up in less than a year. [0] I don't quite understand how nostr defines "users", but in any case, from your own link: Users: 318,981 Trusted users: 82,323 Daily active users: between 7000 and 9000 Weekly active users: between 18,000 and 20,000 And the retention of users, 30 days after signup is pretty close to 0%. So I'm at a total loss about what you're celebrating. > Now when tested in November 2022, normal users tried it, weren't impressed and left It's not clear that "normal" users even tried it. Mastodon never had 200 million accounts at any time, or anywhere close to that number. By the way, lots of people also try Twitter and abandon it. That's par for the course on any social network. > In principle, it is a failure. Even Eugen knows this paradox. Following the UX failure of being unable to onboard normal users from Twitter to Mastodon, they chose a 'default instance' to sign up in the official mobile app. I wouldn't say that's an in principle failure. It's an issue, to be sure, and as I said, Mastodon "could use some improvements". But the goal was never to migrate and onboard every Twitter user, so the onboarding difficulties don't make the project a failure. It's a thriving community nonetheless. > The problem is however, whilst everyone was too focused on Twitter's death which didn't happen last year I would replace "everyone" with "you". ;-)
- rvz 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > You seems to be a bit frustrated yourself by the fact that there was little to no such adoption in the first place after showing those links right in front of you. How many times do I have to say that I'm happy with the current size of Mastodon? > I thought you said you had a 'good memory'? This has nothing to do with memory. You made vague, almost nonsensical accusations. > We all know that the vast majority of normal users (not techies, developers, etc) have tried it, aired their frustrations and left and didn't stick around. Absurdly false. There's no evidence whatsoever that hundreds of millions of people have tried Mastodon. That's such a bizarre claim, especially since you continue to talk about how you think the total number of Mastodon accounts ever created is low. > But clearly you refuse to acknowledge that and continue to ignore the centralization and corruption risks with Meta's backroom NDAs with instance admins. This may be the first relevant thing you've said. Except I'm 100% opposed to Facebook's P92 project. > Yet the majority of the normal users (220M+) on Twitter took a look at Mastodon, tried it, left and never looked back again. Whether they "looked" at Mastodon, I couldn't say (and neither can you), but I can say that the majority of Twitter users didn't try it. Do 200M people even have the motivation to try Mastodon? > But for perspective of that figure, it seems that Nostr reached that 'total number' quicker than Mastodon did in less than 7 years. There's an obvious reason for that, the elephant in the room. The Mastodon and Nostr signups both mostly occurred after Elon Musk acquired Twitter. > Is that why you haven't replied to this comment [1] who is asking whether if there is even evidence of 'over a million regular users?' (non-techies) using it? Why do you take "regular" from the other commenter to mean "non-techie" as opposed to "frequent"? According to https://joinmastodon.org/about https://joinmastodon.org/about there are 1.2M monthly active users. There are no demographic surveys of Mastodon, so I have no idea how many are "techie" or "non-techie", nor do I care. > Mastodon was meant to challenge that during the so-called #TwitterMigration outrage as that alternative for normal users. What do you mean Mastodon was "meant" for that? As you continue to say, Mastodon was created in 2016. The so-called #TwitterMigration was a result of Elon Musk acquiring Twitter in 2022. Unless you're claiming that Eugen Rochko magically predicted this acquisition 6 years prior, Mastodon was not meant for that. The simple fact is that after Musk acquired Twitter, a significant number of people including myself were looking for an alternative to Twitter, and they found it with Mastodon. You seem overly concerned about what happened with Mastodon from 2016-2021, but I don't really care about that. Yes, Mastodon had relatively low adoption before the Musk acquisition. So what? > given that you're were part of the Twitter collapse nonsense on HN last year. But you knew that already. Citation needed.