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I agree with all that. But there is also the question: why should we care? What difference does it make now?

by D13Fd 3y ago

jaybrendansmith 3y ago
It does matter. Because if it came from a lab, it means the restrictions and regulations surrounding that lab were completely insufficient to contain the leak. It means that we are all under a constant threat that other, worse leaks, will happen, and that millions have died and a good percentage of the GDP of the entire world was lost due to gain of function experiments done without enough precaution. It deeply matters, and if we are adults we need to handle this with investigations and preventative action plans and a global regulatory framework.
- D13Fd 3y ago
  I would say that I don’t think it matters whether it was a lab leak or not, COVID shows that we shouldn’t be doing this kind of research either way.
  - jaybrendansmith 3y ago
    This research allowed us to create a vaccine within weeks of discovery. If this was not a lab leak, and we had not done that research, many might still be dying from Covid-19. But it's clear that governments cannot afford to allow even a single research facility to be un-regulated or poorly managed.
rich_sasha 3y ago
jaybrendansmith made a good response. I would say more broadly, COVID happened, and could happen again. We need to understand how. If it was natural in origin, we need to identify risk factors that we can minimize going forward. And if it was lab-bourne somehow... Well ditto! Maybe we shut down this kind of research. Maybe we need better safety protocols. I don't know. I know people are dead and won't undie if we understand this. But it seems to me to be totally against the essence of science to say, let's not investigate because it doesn't matter. It massively does. Just as understanding of the origin of the Universe, or our Solar System matters, or the human evolution, even though there too, at face value, such information has no use.
- D13Fd 3y ago
  Yes but we know it was one or the other, and I think we need to follow both paths regardless. We are unlikely to ever know definitively which one it was. And all of the effort debating lab leak or not just distracts time and attention from actual efforts to prevent it from happening again.
  - rich_sasha 3y ago
    > we know it was one or the other Well we don't really, and to me that's part of the problem. Until we know, we don't know. > And all of the effort debating lab leak or not just distracts time and attention from actual efforts to prevent it from happening again. In America perhaps, and other polarized polities. As a scientist, again, I cannot comprehend how anyone can see this as a waste of time. We will surely learn a lot from tracking it through time. I see that the polarising labels got stuck to this issue, and it's unfortunate, but it is in no way inherent to the question.

I agree with all that. But there is also the question: why should we care? What difference does it make now?

by D13Fd 3y ago

I agree with all that. But there is also the question: why should we care? What difference does it make now?

It does matter. Because if it came from a lab, it means the restrictions and regulations surrounding that lab were completely insufficient to contain the leak. It means that we are all under a constant threat that other, worse leaks, will happen, and that millions have died and a good percentage of the GDP of the entire world was lost due to gain of function experiments done without enough precaution. It deeply matters, and if we are adults we need to handle this with investigations and preventative action plans and a global regulatory framework.

D13Fd 3y ago
I would say that I don’t think it matters whether it was a lab leak or not, COVID shows that we shouldn’t be doing this kind of research either way.
- jaybrendansmith 3y ago
  This research allowed us to create a vaccine within weeks of discovery. If this was not a lab leak, and we had not done that research, many might still be dying from Covid-19. But it's clear that governments cannot afford to allow even a single research facility to be un-regulated or poorly managed.

rich_sasha 3y ago

jaybrendansmith made a good response. I would say more broadly, COVID happened, and could happen again. We need to understand how. If it was natural in origin, we need to identify risk factors that we can minimize going forward. And if it was lab-bourne somehow... Well ditto! Maybe we shut down this kind of research. Maybe we need better safety protocols. I don't know. I know people are dead and won't undie if we understand this. But it seems to me to be totally against the essence of science to say, let's not investigate because it doesn't matter. It massively does. Just as understanding of the origin of the Universe, or our Solar System matters, or the human evolution, even though there too, at face value, such information has no use.

D13Fd 3y ago
Yes but we know it was one or the other, and I think we need to follow both paths regardless. We are unlikely to ever know definitively which one it was. And all of the effort debating lab leak or not just distracts time and attention from actual efforts to prevent it from happening again.
- rich_sasha 3y ago
  > we know it was one or the other Well we don't really, and to me that's part of the problem. Until we know, we don't know. > And all of the effort debating lab leak or not just distracts time and attention from actual efforts to prevent it from happening again. In America perhaps, and other polarized polities. As a scientist, again, I cannot comprehend how anyone can see this as a waste of time. We will surely learn a lot from tracking it through time. I see that the polarising labels got stuck to this issue, and it's unfortunate, but it is in no way inherent to the question.