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I have no doubt that the standard keyboard QWERTY layout is broken, but I really wonder whether it's broken in an way that's particularly important to most user

I have no doubt that the standard keyboard QWERTY layout is broken, but I really wonder whether it's broken in an way that's particularly important to most users of keyboards. I totally understand looking for a more ergonomic design of the physical layout - I've long used the relatively straightforward split keyboards, and find them physically more comfortable, and I can see for people who type a fair bit, going even further with those changes being helpful. But changing the logical arrangement of the keys doesn't seem to me to be of much benefit to MOST people who type. Most of us aren't particularly limited by the speed at which we type. People who spend most of their day producing code or written text in bulk are exceptions, but the way I see most people working, navigation and think time are the limiting factors in productivity, not character production. So, while I get that QWERTY is sub-optimal, I'm not sure I see that the juice is worth the squeeze in changing it, for most people. And if that's the case, there isn't much hope for industry-wide change.

_c3ag 3y ago
maybe it is more for future generations hoping the computer train? after all, everyone starts without any skill at touch-typing, so why not teach them something better?
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  Because there must be a coordinated effort to change the default or at least increase the diversity of layouts. Otherwise it's like teaching esperanto, putting them into a very small minority for little benefit. Even as a technical user for decades I find it too burdensome to swim upstream with a niche layout, and I already have remapped copy-paste.
  - _c3ag 3y ago
    well, all we can do, is all we can do… if swimming upstream is that hard (and i agree that decades of professional usage on a X layout is hard to give up); at least when teaching someone you could say something: “here is the layout you should use! i know mine is different and i can type typewriter with one row in case i want to impress someone but yours is better, like minor chances of getting a RSI and general efficiency when typing stuff…”
    - paulryanrogers 3y ago
      FWIW I did try an alt layout a while back. It was just too disruptive because it required changing so many shortcuts. As more jobs come to benefit from shortcuts, QWERTY becomes more entrenched.
- walnutclosefarm 3y ago
  Maybe, but all that kind of assume you will only type on personal devices, or at least do 99.9% of your typing on personal devices. When I worked in Europe for roughly 1 week of every month, I was largely flummoxed by the occassional need to use a foreign keyboard mapping (a German keyboard has y and z reversed from the English layout, as I recall). Just that and a few other differences for symbol keys meant that every time I had to use a keyboard not my own when in Germany, I went from being a fluent touch typist, to a hunt and peck typist. Same for French keyboards, which had several key re-arrangements relative to English that I no longer remember. If I taught my kids on Dvorak (which I considered, as they were home schooled), that would have been their experience on every device they encountered outside our home. I'm sure they would have loved me for it.

_c3ag 3y ago

maybe it is more for future generations hoping the computer train? after all, everyone starts without any skill at touch-typing, so why not teach them something better?

paulryanrogers 3y ago
Because there must be a coordinated effort to change the default or at least increase the diversity of layouts. Otherwise it's like teaching esperanto, putting them into a very small minority for little benefit. Even as a technical user for decades I find it too burdensome to swim upstream with a niche layout, and I already have remapped copy-paste.
- _c3ag 3y ago
  well, all we can do, is all we can do… if swimming upstream is that hard (and i agree that decades of professional usage on a X layout is hard to give up); at least when teaching someone you could say something: “here is the layout you should use! i know mine is different and i can type typewriter with one row in case i want to impress someone but yours is better, like minor chances of getting a RSI and general efficiency when typing stuff…”
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    FWIW I did try an alt layout a while back. It was just too disruptive because it required changing so many shortcuts. As more jobs come to benefit from shortcuts, QWERTY becomes more entrenched.
walnutclosefarm 3y ago
Maybe, but all that kind of assume you will only type on personal devices, or at least do 99.9% of your typing on personal devices. When I worked in Europe for roughly 1 week of every month, I was largely flummoxed by the occassional need to use a foreign keyboard mapping (a German keyboard has y and z reversed from the English layout, as I recall). Just that and a few other differences for symbol keys meant that every time I had to use a keyboard not my own when in Germany, I went from being a fluent touch typist, to a hunt and peck typist. Same for French keyboards, which had several key re-arrangements relative to English that I no longer remember. If I taught my kids on Dvorak (which I considered, as they were home schooled), that would have been their experience on every device they encountered outside our home. I'm sure they would have loved me for it.