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I have noticed that my Android phone app, Google Voice, and other communications apps that I use make it difficult or impossible to record a conversation in pro

I have noticed that my Android phone app, Google Voice, and other communications apps that I use make it difficult or impossible to record a conversation in progress. Now in my jurisdiction, it is legal for me to record any conversation with one-party consent, and that party is me. So I often use a third-party voice recorder app to record real-life situations such as medical interactions. (Don't ever tell the provider you're making recordings because they hate that. An urgent care nurse told me it was a HIPAA violation. That is rich: how could I violate my own HIPAA privacy with a personal recording?) But I can't ever record phone conversations, unless I use the analog hole. My voice-recording app only records silence when system audio is used. Is this because of the patchwork of legality? Are phone developers reluctant to enable a feature that may be illegal in some jurisdictions? What's the best way to manage this?

davidg109 3y ago
I’ve done HIPAA assessments. That nurse should stick to her day job.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  Thank you. I immediately knew she was bluffing, but since I had politely asked permission, I also had to politely obey their bullshit policy. And in the same encounter, the attending physician said I should try to measure my blood pressure 5 times per day. I was a little shocked at that, too, and when I told my PCP, he calmly informed me that that attending physician was also largely composed of bovine manure, and once a day is a perfectly good cadence for monitoring blood pressure. Needless to say, I haven't returned to that urgent care facility.
- dylan604 3y ago
  doctors/nurses looking out for each other to avoid medical malpractice is just as entrenched as backing the blue. getting another doctor/nurse to testify against another is nearly impossible. sounds to me like this nurse was just trying to prevent someone from getting a leg up on a case that would make all of their malpractice insurance premiums go up
  - yebyen 3y ago
    As a patient I am so offended by the idea that getting a complete and accurate record of one's own medical history and communications might actually just be a big hinderance that really is only gonna make someone's insurance premiums go up.
fikama 3y ago
I don't know why but its blocked at android level (I have no idea of IOS situation). "Google has been slowly deprecating and removing APIs that enable call recording over several Android versions. The company does this in the name of privacy and security and also because call recording laws are so varied across different countries." ~https://www.androidauthority.com/google-killing-call-recording-apps-3155610/ https://www.androidauthority.com/google-killing-call-recordi...
- Qem 3y ago
  That sucks. Where I live it's not illegal to record. Once I won a small claims court case against my Telco provider, where they signed me up without notice and charged me for services I didn't request. As proof I presented recordings of their awful customer service wrongly telling me repeatedly they had already fixed it, and then the following bills showing otherwise.
  - jjoonathan 3y ago
    Can't have peasants holding the masters accountable. That just won't do.
- NoRelToEmber 3y ago
  I love corporations overzealously enforcing laws on people through those people's private devices.
bravura 3y ago
Life hack: If you are ever getting brusque / rushed / insincere medical care, make sure you have a small notepad and pen on you. Just take notes after you get possibly wrongly informed in front of the care provider... you would be surprised how much their posture changes from a place of hostility to one of actual service if they see that you are someone who actually keeps receipts of what they shared with you.
- bitshiftfaced 3y ago
  This may be true in general, but it brings to mind this one experience where I had the gall to stop my doctor for a moment so that I could write down the name of a diagnosis. Looked at me with annoyance, like no one ever did that before.
  - Tao3300 3y ago
    Next note: Doctor looked at me with annoyance for taking notes
    - falcolas 3y ago
      TODO: Find new doctor.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    You got a diagnosis out of a doctor? I haven't managed to get that in years, at least not for any kind of seasonal or common sickness afflicting either myself, my wife or our kids. A few times I tried to ask some leading questions, but no doctor ever bit on the bait. It's as if they're being trained to only give patients medical advice and prescribe medicine, and in no way disclose or even hint at possible diagnosis. Not even in the medical documentation, at least not in one I could access. (Geographical context: that's all in Poland, EU, and I experienced the same phenomenon in both public and private healthcare.)
gnopgnip 3y ago
Allowing patients to record audio and video greatly increases the impact of incidental disclosure, of other patients PHI being exposed by your recording or another patient recording your PHI, and that can be a HIPAA violation depending on the context. All modern phones have locked down access to call sound output to prevent stalking apps. Sometimes there is a workaround to record call output through the accessibility features, usually this comes with a big enough disclaimer that it can’t be used to stalk someone when used maliciously. The more reliable way to record a phone call including what the other person is saying is to put it on speakerphone.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  > Allowing patients to record audio and video greatly increases the impact of incidental disclosure, of other patients PHI being exposed by your recording or another patient recording your PHI, and that can be a HIPAA violation depending on the context. That seems like a cop-out to me, and it actually seems to be a tacit admission that PHI isn't secure in the middle of a facility. If someone else's PHI hits my ears or eyes, it's already a HIPAA violation whether or not it's recorded. The desire of consumers to record interactions and keep providers honest does not/should not constitute a novel barrier to that provider's privacy compliance.
Spooky23 3y ago
Apple Watches work well for this. There’s a ton of risks for phone providers for malware, abusive apps, etc to make those APIs work everywhere. If you’re someone at actual risk of litigation there’s a doubled edged sword. If you routinely record than don’t at a convenient time, that can cause trouble for you.

davidg109 3y ago

I’ve done HIPAA assessments. That nurse should stick to her day job.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
Thank you. I immediately knew she was bluffing, but since I had politely asked permission, I also had to politely obey their bullshit policy. And in the same encounter, the attending physician said I should try to measure my blood pressure 5 times per day. I was a little shocked at that, too, and when I told my PCP, he calmly informed me that that attending physician was also largely composed of bovine manure, and once a day is a perfectly good cadence for monitoring blood pressure. Needless to say, I haven't returned to that urgent care facility.
dylan604 3y ago
doctors/nurses looking out for each other to avoid medical malpractice is just as entrenched as backing the blue. getting another doctor/nurse to testify against another is nearly impossible. sounds to me like this nurse was just trying to prevent someone from getting a leg up on a case that would make all of their malpractice insurance premiums go up
- yebyen 3y ago
  As a patient I am so offended by the idea that getting a complete and accurate record of one's own medical history and communications might actually just be a big hinderance that really is only gonna make someone's insurance premiums go up.

fikama 3y ago

I don't know why but its blocked at android level (I have no idea of IOS situation). "Google has been slowly deprecating and removing APIs that enable call recording over several Android versions. The company does this in the name of privacy and security and also because call recording laws are so varied across different countries." ~https://www.androidauthority.com/google-killing-call-recording-apps-3155610/ https://www.androidauthority.com/google-killing-call-recordi...

Qem 3y ago
That sucks. Where I live it's not illegal to record. Once I won a small claims court case against my Telco provider, where they signed me up without notice and charged me for services I didn't request. As proof I presented recordings of their awful customer service wrongly telling me repeatedly they had already fixed it, and then the following bills showing otherwise.
- jjoonathan 3y ago
  Can't have peasants holding the masters accountable. That just won't do.
NoRelToEmber 3y ago
I love corporations overzealously enforcing laws on people through those people's private devices.

bravura 3y ago

Life hack: If you are ever getting brusque / rushed / insincere medical care, make sure you have a small notepad and pen on you. Just take notes after you get possibly wrongly informed in front of the care provider... you would be surprised how much their posture changes from a place of hostility to one of actual service if they see that you are someone who actually keeps receipts of what they shared with you.

bitshiftfaced 3y ago
This may be true in general, but it brings to mind this one experience where I had the gall to stop my doctor for a moment so that I could write down the name of a diagnosis. Looked at me with annoyance, like no one ever did that before.
- Tao3300 3y ago
  Next note: Doctor looked at me with annoyance for taking notes
  - falcolas 3y ago
    TODO: Find new doctor.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  You got a diagnosis out of a doctor? I haven't managed to get that in years, at least not for any kind of seasonal or common sickness afflicting either myself, my wife or our kids. A few times I tried to ask some leading questions, but no doctor ever bit on the bait. It's as if they're being trained to only give patients medical advice and prescribe medicine, and in no way disclose or even hint at possible diagnosis. Not even in the medical documentation, at least not in one I could access. (Geographical context: that's all in Poland, EU, and I experienced the same phenomenon in both public and private healthcare.)

gnopgnip 3y ago

Allowing patients to record audio and video greatly increases the impact of incidental disclosure, of other patients PHI being exposed by your recording or another patient recording your PHI, and that can be a HIPAA violation depending on the context. All modern phones have locked down access to call sound output to prevent stalking apps. Sometimes there is a workaround to record call output through the accessibility features, usually this comes with a big enough disclaimer that it can’t be used to stalk someone when used maliciously. The more reliable way to record a phone call including what the other person is saying is to put it on speakerphone.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
> Allowing patients to record audio and video greatly increases the impact of incidental disclosure, of other patients PHI being exposed by your recording or another patient recording your PHI, and that can be a HIPAA violation depending on the context. That seems like a cop-out to me, and it actually seems to be a tacit admission that PHI isn't secure in the middle of a facility. If someone else's PHI hits my ears or eyes, it's already a HIPAA violation whether or not it's recorded. The desire of consumers to record interactions and keep providers honest does not/should not constitute a novel barrier to that provider's privacy compliance.

Spooky23 3y ago

Apple Watches work well for this. There’s a ton of risks for phone providers for malware, abusive apps, etc to make those APIs work everywhere. If you’re someone at actual risk of litigation there’s a doubled edged sword. If you routinely record than don’t at a convenient time, that can cause trouble for you.