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Yeah, the Ferengi exist only as a counterpoint to the Federation; not as a society that could actually function. Capitalism is always shown in a negative light,
by OscarCunningham 3y ago
Yeah, the Ferengi exist only as a counterpoint to the Federation; not as a society that could actually function. Capitalism is always shown in a negative light, except for that one episode where Nog goes on a fetch quest.
- Ekaros 3y agoNot that Federation was a society that could function either... I'm not sure deeply about others, but in general it felt that most of them would fail.
- XorNot 3y agoThe Federation has Replicators and the Transporter. They are almost the only type of society that makes sense in the setting.
- Ekaros 3y agoDo they transport for example Ores or building materials out of planets? Who actually builds all the stuff that can't be replicated? And can they just quit their job or take personal time off when ever they want? Also if you really think that everything goes through replicators, what does that mean for energy expenditure? If done on planets where does all the energy go? And don't everyone else have those two things too? So why did Cardassia need mining outpost?
- hnlmorg 3y agoReplicators were always described as being energy hungry. In some instances slave labour was “cheaper”. In other instances they used the “this material cannot be replicated” loophole. Such as the drug that the Dominion were addicted to.
- XorNot 3y agoWhich also doesn't make sense: you can't replicate the drug, but it hardly implies you also can't replicate the factory which makes it, for example. Just how far up the "can't do that" chain do you go? The thing is, the mechanism of the Replicator is less important then what it represents: productivity with zero human labor input. We don't live in that world - we have trouble conceiving of that world. But that's essentially the whole promise of AI: robots which can build more robots, which can then build products for us. At some point, your whole civilizations pipeline becomes "energy + robot labor". And once you get the first part of the Dyson swarm up and running, energy is infinite - at least in human terms.
- hnlmorg 3y agoI agree but Star Trek was never intended to be hard Sci-Fi. Sometimes it even breaks from its own cannon (and I’m not just talking about Discovery/Klingons. Almost all of the alien species have undergone revision over the years). So I’m ok with replicators being a lazy plot device. It’s not like there aren’t countless others, like transporters, the usage of large mother ships rather than lots of smaller vessels, universal translators, 3D geometry presented in 2D, every species being bipedal, etc. The point behind Star Trek is that it presents the best of humanity rather than the worst — which is what most other popular sci-fi stories focus on.
- hnlmorg 3y agoSo did the other species mentioned.
- BirAdam 3y agoThe Klingons and the Federation both make sense in a world that is post scarcity: war as religion, or science/adventure as all-consuming hobby. Thing is, as you noted, most other civs make very little sense.
- hnlmorg 3y agoThere are odd episodes throughout Star Trek that do show the diversity within each society. Such as Klingon scientists. It’s also worth noting that the Ferengi were space worthy centuries before humans and one of the reasons speculated for their stagnation was the placement of greed above all else.
- gvurrdon 3y agoWhich episode showed Klingon scientists? I’d be very interested to see that.
- transcriptase 3y agoTNG 6x22 - "Suspicions" :)
- gvurrdon 3y agoThanks! I’ll take a look at Netflix later.
- ravenstine 3y agoAlso "Affliction" and "Divergence" in season 4 of Enterprise.
- dundarious 3y agoI believe this has one scientist each from a few of the major species, including Klingons: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Chase_(episode) https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Chase_(episode)
- chongli 3y agoI disagree. Every time we think “that could never happen” in our society, it happens. In my life time, I’ve watched the rise of software as something you buy and own, and saw it transform completely into something you rent. The Ferengi society is the logical conclusion to this process. On Ferenginar you have to pay for everything, with the equivalent of parking meters everywhere. Our society is rapidly heading in that direction. The main difference is that at least the Ferengi are honest about the values that govern their society. I think we’re far more likely to end up like the Ferengi than we are the federation.
- OscarCunningham 3y agoYeah, the bit that's bad world-building is that they have these terrible values which are repeatedly shown not to work, and yet simultaneously they have a successful interstellar civilization.
- Ekaros 3y agoAnd clearly they are somewhat integral part in operation of the part of galaxy they are in. As people keep trading often in their currency. Even the federation occasionally get hands on Latinum.
- chongli 3y agothat they have these terrible values which are repeatedly shown not to work What? Like our values? The Ferengi are developed to be every bit as unique, individually, as we are. We see Ferengi scientists, murderers, reformers, inventors, and leaders. I think it’s more your lack of imagination that’s the issue. The Ferengi are totally plausible as scientists, inventors, and explorers. Nothing they do is at all out of line with what Europeans did in the age of discovery, apart from slavery. The Ferengi never tolerated slavery.
- paulryanrogers 3y ago> The Ferengi never tolerated slavery. Ferengi females were arguably slaves since they had so few rights.