5 ms·

> isn't this the equivalent of trying to figure out how an operating system works by trying to look at activity on an encrypted SSD? Not quite - an encrypted S

> isn't this the equivalent of trying to figure out how an operating system works by trying to look at activity on an encrypted SSD? Not quite - an encrypted SSD is deliberately designed to be hard to understand, while the brain is probably not. It's closer to reverse engineering a very complicated and hacky software system, if you want a tech analogy. > I'm not aware of any philosopher having made meaningful strides within the subject either. This bet was about putting the burden on neuroscientists who claimed they were making pretty quick progress towards understanding consciousness. It's a bet on what would eventually happen, not a competition to see who's better.

hnfong 3y ago
These days we have a better analogy. It's like trying to figure out how artificial neural networks work by looking at their weights! :D
- paxys 3y ago
  B can't really be an analogy for A if it is directly derived from A.
LocalH 3y ago
> Not quite - an encrypted SSD is deliberately designed to be hard to understand, while the brain is probably not Who's to say that the difficulty in understanding how the brain works is a defense mechanism of sorts? Similar to how the blood-brain barrier exists as a defense mechanism. The wording "deliberately" can imply a pedestal that doesn't really exist, that places "deliberate" human design above "natural" micro-evolution that basically happened by chance. It would stand to reason that a more complex brain, that's harder to understand, would survive natural selection. Even the brains of tiny animals are quite complex in their smallness, they encode a lot of different knowledge ("instruction set" if you prefer), that enable them to do certain things that would take us a lot of manual "over-the-top" processing and calculating. For example, the ability for a cat to right themselves nearly perfectly when falling, given enough distance. Their brains can inherently calculate the exact amount of force, and the exact motions to take, to achieve the desired amount of rotation in three-dimensional space.
- FartyMcFarter 3y ago
  > Who's to say that the difficulty in understanding how the brain works is a defense mechanism of sorts? I don't see why evolution would have optimised our brains for that specific goal. It's possible but it seems very unlikely, as there's no motivation for it AFAICT.
- paxys 3y ago
  That is incompatible with how evolution works. Complexity is one thing, but there was no survival reason to hide (aka encrypt) the inner workings of a brain when they first came into being ~200 million years ago.

hnfong 3y ago

These days we have a better analogy. It's like trying to figure out how artificial neural networks work by looking at their weights! :D

paxys 3y ago
B can't really be an analogy for A if it is directly derived from A.

LocalH 3y ago

> Not quite - an encrypted SSD is deliberately designed to be hard to understand, while the brain is probably not Who's to say that the difficulty in understanding how the brain works is a defense mechanism of sorts? Similar to how the blood-brain barrier exists as a defense mechanism. The wording "deliberately" can imply a pedestal that doesn't really exist, that places "deliberate" human design above "natural" micro-evolution that basically happened by chance. It would stand to reason that a more complex brain, that's harder to understand, would survive natural selection. Even the brains of tiny animals are quite complex in their smallness, they encode a lot of different knowledge ("instruction set" if you prefer), that enable them to do certain things that would take us a lot of manual "over-the-top" processing and calculating. For example, the ability for a cat to right themselves nearly perfectly when falling, given enough distance. Their brains can inherently calculate the exact amount of force, and the exact motions to take, to achieve the desired amount of rotation in three-dimensional space.

FartyMcFarter 3y ago
> Who's to say that the difficulty in understanding how the brain works is a defense mechanism of sorts? I don't see why evolution would have optimised our brains for that specific goal. It's possible but it seems very unlikely, as there's no motivation for it AFAICT.
paxys 3y ago
That is incompatible with how evolution works. Complexity is one thing, but there was no survival reason to hide (aka encrypt) the inner workings of a brain when they first came into being ~200 million years ago.