4 ms·

I don't think so. Often I see people in the UK breaking rules like that and it's almost never mentioned. But it wasn't just that he mentioned it. It was the wa

by vertis 3y ago

I don't think so. Often I see people in the UK breaking rules like that and it's almost never mentioned. But it wasn't just that he mentioned it. It was the way he mentioned it. That the only possible reason for us to not be following the rules was that we must not know them.

Leherenn 3y ago
Wasn't it just being polite?
- vertis 3y ago
  That's a possible interpretation as well. But having travelled extensively (and I'm not the rule breaker in most cases), there are very very different approaches to rules and laws even within Europe. There is a section of Europe where following the rules is what you do (to be clear it's not just Germany[0]). It's assumed that you're going to follow the rules. Adults don't need to be policed in this way. The rules are there for a reason (second order thinking). Then there are large parts of Europe where there are rules but if they're not enforced then people will by and large not obey them. See, for example, the UK putting in smart motorways (aka, average speed cameras), because before that people would fly up the motor way well above the speed limit. The Autobahn might have areas with no speed limit, but on the sections that HAVE speed limits you'd be hard pressed to find someone breaking those limits. I grew up in Australia where it's somewhere between the two. The enforcement of the rules is strict. I once got a jaywalking ticket for crossing an empty road in Melbourne (long story, but it's also one of my stupider moments because it wasn't like the police were behind a bush, they hopped off the same tram I did). I haven't had a speeding or parking ticket since I left Australia. Though, circling back to my Stuttgart story, if someone approached you about rule breaking in Australia you can almost guarantee that you'd have pissed them off to the point it would not have been polite. In Paris, as well, I have been yelled at (in French) for dog poop on a sidewalk that wasn't even my dogs -- yes, I do always pick up after my dog. [0]: Even within Germany I'm sure there are variations on this.
  - Scarblac 3y ago
    In the Netherlands, when riding a bicycle, most people treat most traffic rules as suggestions. Interesting context to explain what's happening. This is made possible by the fact that cars (try to) follow traffic rules to the letter. (Essentially every car driver in the Netherlands is also a cyclist at other times)
    - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
      There is a logic to it though. On a bicycle you are mostly risking your own life, so you are likely to make good judgements about when you can break the rules. In a car, you are mostly riding other people’s lives (bicyclists and pedestrians). Different incentives.
      - vertis 3y ago
        Ah yes, I think that's a realy common behaviour. In fact, I got hit by a cyclist on an e-bike in London running a red light.
        alanfranz 3y ago
        The fact that you’re here to tell is a clear sign that the impact isn’t so high as if it were a car. Morons exist :-(
        vertis 3y ago
        Yeah, managed to have stitches in the back of my head, but I'll not argue that I'd rather be hit by a bike than a car. If those are the only options. To be fair, the bike rider didn't exactly walk away without some bumps and bruises either.
      - Scarblac 3y ago
        Yes, I was just trying to show that the same people can have a different attitude to the same rules if the context is a bit different.
konschubert 3y ago
I live in Germany. Our park has a daily meet up of dog owners letting their dogs roam. The rule says they should be on the leash. Nobody follows it.
- vertis 3y ago
  Your anecdote is stronger than my anecdote :)
  - konschubert 3y ago
    yea, I'm afraid I'm not adding much to the discussion. In the end, it doesn't matter if Germany really is like this - the idea of an orderly country still exists.
    - vertis 3y ago
      I beg to differ, counterpoints are always useful. I have an outsiders view of Germany. I've seen large chunks of it. Even stopped for a month or two (Munich, Berlin). But I don't speak German, or at least not enough to be useful (Mein Deutsch ist nicht gut). I visit a park once or twice, not with a group that you get to know. My lack of German may well have changed the interaction I mentioned.
      - konschubert 3y ago
        Haha. Just for the record, I am not part of the dog owners group :) I don't think it's nice to let a dog roam in the park, kids get scared, and things can go wrong.
        vertis 3y ago
        Ah, I read that differently. Yeah, it depends on the dog I guess. I have an English Cocker Spaniel which the worst risk is probably knocking someone over. I'm generally not pro breaking rules like that, and in the case above I actually hadn't seen the sign (it was not well posted). I do generally go out of my way to translate rules where necessary.
heavenlyblue 3y ago
> Often I see people in the UK breaking rules like that and it's almost never mentioned. Because UK people generally don't care about breaking the rules of no-BBQ in the park. What happens though when someone jumps a queue?

by vertis 3y ago

Leherenn 3y ago

Wasn't it just being polite?

vertis 3y ago
That's a possible interpretation as well. But having travelled extensively (and I'm not the rule breaker in most cases), there are very very different approaches to rules and laws even within Europe. There is a section of Europe where following the rules is what you do (to be clear it's not just Germany[0]). It's assumed that you're going to follow the rules. Adults don't need to be policed in this way. The rules are there for a reason (second order thinking). Then there are large parts of Europe where there are rules but if they're not enforced then people will by and large not obey them. See, for example, the UK putting in smart motorways (aka, average speed cameras), because before that people would fly up the motor way well above the speed limit. The Autobahn might have areas with no speed limit, but on the sections that HAVE speed limits you'd be hard pressed to find someone breaking those limits. I grew up in Australia where it's somewhere between the two. The enforcement of the rules is strict. I once got a jaywalking ticket for crossing an empty road in Melbourne (long story, but it's also one of my stupider moments because it wasn't like the police were behind a bush, they hopped off the same tram I did). I haven't had a speeding or parking ticket since I left Australia. Though, circling back to my Stuttgart story, if someone approached you about rule breaking in Australia you can almost guarantee that you'd have pissed them off to the point it would not have been polite. In Paris, as well, I have been yelled at (in French) for dog poop on a sidewalk that wasn't even my dogs -- yes, I do always pick up after my dog. [0]: Even within Germany I'm sure there are variations on this.
- Scarblac 3y ago
  In the Netherlands, when riding a bicycle, most people treat most traffic rules as suggestions. Interesting context to explain what's happening. This is made possible by the fact that cars (try to) follow traffic rules to the letter. (Essentially every car driver in the Netherlands is also a cyclist at other times)
  - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
    There is a logic to it though. On a bicycle you are mostly risking your own life, so you are likely to make good judgements about when you can break the rules. In a car, you are mostly riding other people’s lives (bicyclists and pedestrians). Different incentives.
    - vertis 3y ago
      Ah yes, I think that's a realy common behaviour. In fact, I got hit by a cyclist on an e-bike in London running a red light.
      - alanfranz 3y ago
        The fact that you’re here to tell is a clear sign that the impact isn’t so high as if it were a car. Morons exist :-(
        vertis 3y ago
        Yeah, managed to have stitches in the back of my head, but I'll not argue that I'd rather be hit by a bike than a car. If those are the only options. To be fair, the bike rider didn't exactly walk away without some bumps and bruises either.
    - Scarblac 3y ago
      Yes, I was just trying to show that the same people can have a different attitude to the same rules if the context is a bit different.

konschubert 3y ago

I live in Germany. Our park has a daily meet up of dog owners letting their dogs roam. The rule says they should be on the leash. Nobody follows it.

vertis 3y ago
Your anecdote is stronger than my anecdote :)
- konschubert 3y ago
  yea, I'm afraid I'm not adding much to the discussion. In the end, it doesn't matter if Germany really is like this - the idea of an orderly country still exists.
  - vertis 3y ago
    I beg to differ, counterpoints are always useful. I have an outsiders view of Germany. I've seen large chunks of it. Even stopped for a month or two (Munich, Berlin). But I don't speak German, or at least not enough to be useful (Mein Deutsch ist nicht gut). I visit a park once or twice, not with a group that you get to know. My lack of German may well have changed the interaction I mentioned.
    - konschubert 3y ago
      Haha. Just for the record, I am not part of the dog owners group :) I don't think it's nice to let a dog roam in the park, kids get scared, and things can go wrong.
      - vertis 3y ago
        Ah, I read that differently. Yeah, it depends on the dog I guess. I have an English Cocker Spaniel which the worst risk is probably knocking someone over. I'm generally not pro breaking rules like that, and in the case above I actually hadn't seen the sign (it was not well posted). I do generally go out of my way to translate rules where necessary.

heavenlyblue 3y ago

> Often I see people in the UK breaking rules like that and it's almost never mentioned. Because UK people generally don't care about breaking the rules of no-BBQ in the park. What happens though when someone jumps a queue?