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Amazing to me the general attitude here towards take-homes. I don't know, perhaps it's because I've progressed every interview I've had the opportunity to do a

Amazing to me the general attitude here towards take-homes. I don't know, perhaps it's because I've progressed every interview I've had the opportunity to do a take-home on (and I struggle with most leet-code style whiteboarding interviews) but I've always seen take-homes as an audition for your software development style -- what you deliver in a take-home assessment is what they will use to judge how you'll deliver on the job, plain and simple. I've only done take homes for companies that I've already passed initial interviews for and generally like the people I've talked to and have favorable impressions of the culture/workplace thus far. I wouldn't do a take-home before that, but I'd do a take-home any day before a leet code grinding thing.

emodendroket 3y ago
The trouble is I've never seen it be a replacement for whiteboarding. You do the stupid takehome and then you still have to do the regular interview anyway.
genezeta 3y ago
> I've only done take homes for companies that I've already passed initial interviews for and generally like the people I've talked to and have favorable impressions of the culture/workplace thus far So your experience has been quite specific. A lot of companies think that it's fine to send you a take-home assignment as the first step. Some more do it after just a 10 minute phone call. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that your amazement can easily be explained by the fact that you've done it in particular circumstances which is probably not the experience of most people.
prakhar897 3y ago
Why don't they judge me based on my 4 year long degree which is only done to rubber stamp that I can do the job. Do you also expect a Med graduate to see some patients in the hospital for free before giving them a job?
- vekerdyb 3y ago
  Would you be happy to work with any and all your peers who have the same degree?
- zo1 3y ago
  As much as I want to agree with you and I do in principle. My reason for not trusting a degree is because I've first-hand seen degrees being given out like candy. I've seen companies hire degreed individuals and then spend a year training them in a bootcamp before they're remotely productive. I've seen individuals that can't speak English, can't spell, use punctuation and write a coherent sentence given a degree. I don't want to bring race into this, but it's very much an important issue here in South African universities: there is a huge shortage of black developers. So universities have immense pressure to rubber-stamp pass the black individuals lest they be seen as the "problem" or "racist".
- Hermitian909 3y ago
  > Why don't they judge me based on my 4 year long degree which is only done to rubber stamp that I can do the job. If you spend enough time hiring you learn that a 4 year degree is a very poor signal for "can be a productive engineer". Communication, raw coding, and soft skills aside I'm still regularly shocked by how weak the CS skills of many fresh grads are, it seems a double digit percentage never really learn big O well enough to use it day to day. When you're paying big salaries you can't afford not to verify this stuff. > Do you also expect a Med graduate to see some patients in the hospital for free before giving them a job? I mean, this is literally a requirement for graduating most pre-med programs. Getting more at your point - in many skilled white collar professions you need to take regular tests to maintain "certification". The bodies that issue these certifications are trusted enough to maintain standards that it's possible to get hired by maintaining the certification. SWEs have no similar institution, and given how fast the field moves it's not clear we're ready to establish one.
- robryan 3y ago
  4 year degree unfortunately is basically a neutral signal. Maybe if it is top scores from a top tier CS college it might be enough to be a positive signal in itself.

emodendroket 3y ago

The trouble is I've never seen it be a replacement for whiteboarding. You do the stupid takehome and then you still have to do the regular interview anyway.

genezeta 3y ago

> I've only done take homes for companies that I've already passed initial interviews for and generally like the people I've talked to and have favorable impressions of the culture/workplace thus far So your experience has been quite specific. A lot of companies think that it's fine to send you a take-home assignment as the first step. Some more do it after just a 10 minute phone call. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that your amazement can easily be explained by the fact that you've done it in particular circumstances which is probably not the experience of most people.

prakhar897 3y ago

Why don't they judge me based on my 4 year long degree which is only done to rubber stamp that I can do the job. Do you also expect a Med graduate to see some patients in the hospital for free before giving them a job?

vekerdyb 3y ago
Would you be happy to work with any and all your peers who have the same degree?
zo1 3y ago
As much as I want to agree with you and I do in principle. My reason for not trusting a degree is because I've first-hand seen degrees being given out like candy. I've seen companies hire degreed individuals and then spend a year training them in a bootcamp before they're remotely productive. I've seen individuals that can't speak English, can't spell, use punctuation and write a coherent sentence given a degree. I don't want to bring race into this, but it's very much an important issue here in South African universities: there is a huge shortage of black developers. So universities have immense pressure to rubber-stamp pass the black individuals lest they be seen as the "problem" or "racist".
Hermitian909 3y ago
> Why don't they judge me based on my 4 year long degree which is only done to rubber stamp that I can do the job. If you spend enough time hiring you learn that a 4 year degree is a very poor signal for "can be a productive engineer". Communication, raw coding, and soft skills aside I'm still regularly shocked by how weak the CS skills of many fresh grads are, it seems a double digit percentage never really learn big O well enough to use it day to day. When you're paying big salaries you can't afford not to verify this stuff. > Do you also expect a Med graduate to see some patients in the hospital for free before giving them a job? I mean, this is literally a requirement for graduating most pre-med programs. Getting more at your point - in many skilled white collar professions you need to take regular tests to maintain "certification". The bodies that issue these certifications are trusted enough to maintain standards that it's possible to get hired by maintaining the certification. SWEs have no similar institution, and given how fast the field moves it's not clear we're ready to establish one.
robryan 3y ago
4 year degree unfortunately is basically a neutral signal. Maybe if it is top scores from a top tier CS college it might be enough to be a positive signal in itself.