5 ms·

How do you expect you and I to have a logical conversation about China if all you've ever read/watched is from a negative point of view? You’re going to argue

How do you expect you and I to have a logical conversation about China if all you've ever read/watched is from a negative point of view? You’re going to argue “china bad” no matter what points I make because all you know is “china bad”. This is what happens in basically any debates about China on hacker news and pretty much anywhere in the west.

A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
As opposed to what? "$country good" propaganda narrative present in every system that cheers on its own efforts and will be just as blind as "$country bad'. Say what you want about US, but it has no problem taking itself down if there is money to be made on the sentiment. I repeat the question. Can China say that?
- senttoschool 3y ago
  You read negative, positive, and neutral posts about the US and its allies every day. Yet, you only read negative posts on China. So how can you honestly have a logical discussion on China? You don't have a different point of view. You only know one thing, which is "china bad". >Can China say that? Who cares when when hundreds of millions went from hungry to prosperity in one generation? And hundreds of millions more are still hungry? You think they care about the things you care about in the US? Would being able to publish articles slamming the CCP increase GDP per capita faster than the current rate? Would infighting between parties increase tech innovation in China? You can't simply apply whatever values that Americans value onto China. Different history. Different culture. Different phase in development. And besides, millions criticize the actions of the CCP daily on Weibo already. They have more freedom than you think. Don't underestimate the Chinese's ability to overthrow governments whenever they want to. They've been doing it for thousands of years.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
    << You read negative, positive, and neutral posts about the US and its allies every day. Do I? All I see is various agendas and biases with varying degrees of deniability fighting for their slice of discourse. I will say even more. There is nothing neutral about those posts. << You don't have a different point of view. You only know one thing, which is "china bad". Lets assume that I accept this statement; I don't -- I can easily counter that "china bad" is a perspective too; it is arguably a point of view that is, clearly, different from yours. But that does not invalidate it. Still, lets say I do. Even if that is true. As an ambassador to 'china good' perspective, your task is to change my flawed perspective. I can't say I am convinced so far. All I get it is the equivalent of "you anti-China", which is not an argument at all. At best it is a statement. At worst it is a name calling ritual. << Who cares when when hundreds of millions went from hungry to prosperity in one generation? And hundreds of millions more are still hungry? I mean.. I can recite propaganda slogans fed by US glorious regime as well ( I mean only tomorrow will our glorious leader -- may he lie for next thousand years - will be visiting our humble town to tell me how good I have it here and that inflation is a thing of the past; Bidenomics -- he unironically calls it that ), but I would like to think that on this forum we can dispense with bumper stickers and talk turkey. << You think they care about the things you care about in the US? To an extent, sure. It is a similar extent to which US cares about things people care about in China. I can assume you know why that is the case. << Would being able to publish articles slamming the CCP increase GDP per capita faster than the current rate? Assuming I understood your question correctly, yes[1][2][3]. Then again, it is not a big feat. I could just as easily find articles claiming the opposite. Articles of all kinds are published regularly ( frankly, I would be astonished if some were not generated based on your query alone ) - it is a hot subject after all. << Would infighting between parties increase tech innovation in China? I am making a lot of assumptions about this question ( mostly, because I am not sure what it is trying to communicate ) with major one being that you mean major political parties in US, but the real response is that you may need to clarify this question a little. I mean, it might influence it, but it is hard for me to tell which way categorically. Not enough information is provided to make a good answer. << And besides, millions criticize the actions of the CCP daily on Weibo already. For how long? ( Till they catch 'em, duh ). I am joking a little, but not that much. << You can't simply apply whatever values that Americans value onto China. Different history. Different culture. Different phase in development. Why not? It is an honest question. I had a longer response initially, but I removed it, because it assumed a lot. Would you be willing to explain this line of thinking? << They have more freedom than you think. I honestly do not think that is possible. I subscribe to a philosophy where freedom is an illusion. << Don't underestimate the Chinese's ability to overthrow governments whenever they want to. They've been doing it for thousands of years. I am not sure how to interpret that fragment. Was it a veiled threat? Statement of fact? No one is underestimating China. If anything, this is one of the first times, I see US government actually concerned that it may not be able to contain a defined adversary ( economic or otherwise ), which is one of the reasons you see all those frantic efforts to limit China's power now. Come to think of it, is it in China's interest to overthrow US? I don't think the answer surprises anyone, who follows the money. [1]https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/1/24/is-chinas-high-growth-era-over https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/1/24/is-chinas-high-... [2]https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-is-the-ideal-gdp-growth-rate-3306017 https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-is-the-ideal-gdp-growth... [3]https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/how-china-trapped-itself https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/how-china-trapped-itsel...
    - senttoschool 3y ago
      Here's my challenge to you: For one month, take the side of China in HN anti-China posts. There are a lot of them posted here every day. Let's see how you do after a month.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
        Heh. You are on. I partake in discussions on various sides just as an exercise. One catch though. In the interest of balance, you must do the exact opposite. You have to take US side in anti-China posts. Do we have a deal(1)? (1) one month expires at the end of 07/28/23 in your time zone

A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago

As opposed to what? "$country good" propaganda narrative present in every system that cheers on its own efforts and will be just as blind as "$country bad'. Say what you want about US, but it has no problem taking itself down if there is money to be made on the sentiment. I repeat the question. Can China say that?

senttoschool 3y ago
You read negative, positive, and neutral posts about the US and its allies every day. Yet, you only read negative posts on China. So how can you honestly have a logical discussion on China? You don't have a different point of view. You only know one thing, which is "china bad". >Can China say that? Who cares when when hundreds of millions went from hungry to prosperity in one generation? And hundreds of millions more are still hungry? You think they care about the things you care about in the US? Would being able to publish articles slamming the CCP increase GDP per capita faster than the current rate? Would infighting between parties increase tech innovation in China? You can't simply apply whatever values that Americans value onto China. Different history. Different culture. Different phase in development. And besides, millions criticize the actions of the CCP daily on Weibo already. They have more freedom than you think. Don't underestimate the Chinese's ability to overthrow governments whenever they want to. They've been doing it for thousands of years.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
  << You read negative, positive, and neutral posts about the US and its allies every day. Do I? All I see is various agendas and biases with varying degrees of deniability fighting for their slice of discourse. I will say even more. There is nothing neutral about those posts. << You don't have a different point of view. You only know one thing, which is "china bad". Lets assume that I accept this statement; I don't -- I can easily counter that "china bad" is a perspective too; it is arguably a point of view that is, clearly, different from yours. But that does not invalidate it. Still, lets say I do. Even if that is true. As an ambassador to 'china good' perspective, your task is to change my flawed perspective. I can't say I am convinced so far. All I get it is the equivalent of "you anti-China", which is not an argument at all. At best it is a statement. At worst it is a name calling ritual. << Who cares when when hundreds of millions went from hungry to prosperity in one generation? And hundreds of millions more are still hungry? I mean.. I can recite propaganda slogans fed by US glorious regime as well ( I mean only tomorrow will our glorious leader -- may he lie for next thousand years - will be visiting our humble town to tell me how good I have it here and that inflation is a thing of the past; Bidenomics -- he unironically calls it that ), but I would like to think that on this forum we can dispense with bumper stickers and talk turkey. << You think they care about the things you care about in the US? To an extent, sure. It is a similar extent to which US cares about things people care about in China. I can assume you know why that is the case. << Would being able to publish articles slamming the CCP increase GDP per capita faster than the current rate? Assuming I understood your question correctly, yes[1][2][3]. Then again, it is not a big feat. I could just as easily find articles claiming the opposite. Articles of all kinds are published regularly ( frankly, I would be astonished if some were not generated based on your query alone ) - it is a hot subject after all. << Would infighting between parties increase tech innovation in China? I am making a lot of assumptions about this question ( mostly, because I am not sure what it is trying to communicate ) with major one being that you mean major political parties in US, but the real response is that you may need to clarify this question a little. I mean, it might influence it, but it is hard for me to tell which way categorically. Not enough information is provided to make a good answer. << And besides, millions criticize the actions of the CCP daily on Weibo already. For how long? ( Till they catch 'em, duh ). I am joking a little, but not that much. << You can't simply apply whatever values that Americans value onto China. Different history. Different culture. Different phase in development. Why not? It is an honest question. I had a longer response initially, but I removed it, because it assumed a lot. Would you be willing to explain this line of thinking? << They have more freedom than you think. I honestly do not think that is possible. I subscribe to a philosophy where freedom is an illusion. << Don't underestimate the Chinese's ability to overthrow governments whenever they want to. They've been doing it for thousands of years. I am not sure how to interpret that fragment. Was it a veiled threat? Statement of fact? No one is underestimating China. If anything, this is one of the first times, I see US government actually concerned that it may not be able to contain a defined adversary ( economic or otherwise ), which is one of the reasons you see all those frantic efforts to limit China's power now. Come to think of it, is it in China's interest to overthrow US? I don't think the answer surprises anyone, who follows the money. [1]https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/1/24/is-chinas-high-growth-era-over https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/1/24/is-chinas-high-... [2]https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-is-the-ideal-gdp-growth-rate-3306017 https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-is-the-ideal-gdp-growth... [3]https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/how-china-trapped-itself https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/how-china-trapped-itsel...
  - senttoschool 3y ago
    Here's my challenge to you: For one month, take the side of China in HN anti-China posts. There are a lot of them posted here every day. Let's see how you do after a month.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
      Heh. You are on. I partake in discussions on various sides just as an exercise. One catch though. In the interest of balance, you must do the exact opposite. You have to take US side in anti-China posts. Do we have a deal(1)? (1) one month expires at the end of 07/28/23 in your time zone