4 ms·

What do you think he meant by "I'm not going to show you the full code, for safety reasons"?

by knodi123 3y ago

Justin_K 3y ago
A hobbyist thinking their design is so advanced that a terrorist could never make a guided missile on their own.
- GuardianCaveman 3y ago
  Well a hobbyist that took 4 years to develop his design so not just some dude who built something over a weekend. And by that logic a lot of countries could make ICBM nukes on their own - why don't we open source that technology since there's no reason not to share it since they already could probably figure it out.
  - Justin_K 3y ago
    So then what are the obvious reasons?
- teddyduncker 3y ago
  Hi, Im the creator of the video, Not that - the main reason was to prevent people with little experience blindly copying code onto a rocket without understanding what it does and then getting hurt/breaking their rocket and then blaming me. I did say you could contact me for the code, so this doesn't make much sense. Also, this is nothing close to a guided missile...
polishdude20 3y ago
In those model rocket circles, there's a strongly held belief that any code you write that includes a PID controller to steer a rocket is sensitive information / ITAR restricted.
- eftychis 3y ago
  Maybe I am missing something but since when are PID controllers "restricted/secret?" I think I get what you mean, and I guess my question is: is that a falsely held belief by amateurs or?
  - polishdude20 3y ago
    If you paste a link to your full source code for a thrust vectoring rocket in the BPS Space discord, it'll get removed. And yeah a PID by itself is not restricted. They are more worried about that in combination with other circuitry and software that may be used maliciously. I think it's an over reaction
    - K0balt 3y ago
      Llast time I checked guidance systems for model rockets fall into a regulatory space normally applied to guided missiles. You cannot legally make (sell/distribute?) a guided missile in the USA without the appropriate manufacturer’s licensing. The guidance system itself triggers this regulatory wall. Thrust vectoring for landing is fundamentally different in application, but it is still technically guiding a “missile” to a specific point of impact. People working on this as hobbyists are wise to make sure their projects are not seen as presenting an enforcement target, since they could easily be technically crossing the letter if not the intent of the regulations. Amateur rocketry exists in a little space between regulated “destructive devices” and unregulated “fireworks” and they try hard not to tempt regulators to further constrain their activities.
      - Shawnj2 3y ago
        It’s almost funny how little amateur rocketry is legally regulated, you can pretty much do anything you want to legally because practically people in charge of launch sites, etc. will not let you do dangerous shit, but for example without any certification you can buy 1 L1 motor at a time from HPR sites, with an L1 motor you can acquire 1 L2 motor at a time, and with an L2 you can acquire 1 L3 motor at a time so in effect an L2 will let you buy the highest power rocket motors as long as you do so one at a time. Of course no one will let you launch a rocket with 5 L3 motors as an L2 but in theory you could. Also yes code that lets you arbitrarily steer a rocket in any direction is software for a missile and goes under ITAR. I don’t think there’s anything that actually legally prevents you from doing it, but once you make something classified under ITAR it is now an ITAR product and there are limits to what you can publicly say about it, You can legally perform TVC +/- 5 degrees without it being under ITAR from what I’ve heard and a think publishing code for that would be fine, but in practice people probably don’t want to risk it and honestly it’s not that hard to implement yourself if you’re capable of building a TVC rocket anyways
walrus01 3y ago
Assuming he's in the US, he doesn't want his door kicked in by the FBI. No kidding. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=MTCR+missile https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=MTCR+miss... MTCR, ITAR, commerce control list related. amateur model rocket people who fly stuff in the black rock desert go out of their way to NOT incorporate active guidance systems, lest they run afoul of this.
teddyduncker 3y ago
Hi - Im the creator of the video, I put the ITAR there, but the main reason for not showing code was to prevent people with little experience from blindly using code which could be unsafe. There are a lot of young kids or folks with no prior knowledge about rockets trying to get into the hobby, which is great, but can be dangerous if they are using software without understanding what it does. I did say you can email if you want to learn more about it!
- knodi123 3y ago
  Thanks, that's interesting!

What do you think he meant by "I'm not going to show you the full code, for safety reasons"?

Justin_K 3y ago

A hobbyist thinking their design is so advanced that a terrorist could never make a guided missile on their own.

GuardianCaveman 3y ago
Well a hobbyist that took 4 years to develop his design so not just some dude who built something over a weekend. And by that logic a lot of countries could make ICBM nukes on their own - why don't we open source that technology since there's no reason not to share it since they already could probably figure it out.
- Justin_K 3y ago
  So then what are the obvious reasons?
teddyduncker 3y ago
Hi, Im the creator of the video, Not that - the main reason was to prevent people with little experience blindly copying code onto a rocket without understanding what it does and then getting hurt/breaking their rocket and then blaming me. I did say you could contact me for the code, so this doesn't make much sense. Also, this is nothing close to a guided missile...

polishdude20 3y ago

In those model rocket circles, there's a strongly held belief that any code you write that includes a PID controller to steer a rocket is sensitive information / ITAR restricted.

eftychis 3y ago
Maybe I am missing something but since when are PID controllers "restricted/secret?" I think I get what you mean, and I guess my question is: is that a falsely held belief by amateurs or?
- polishdude20 3y ago
  If you paste a link to your full source code for a thrust vectoring rocket in the BPS Space discord, it'll get removed. And yeah a PID by itself is not restricted. They are more worried about that in combination with other circuitry and software that may be used maliciously. I think it's an over reaction
  - K0balt 3y ago
    Llast time I checked guidance systems for model rockets fall into a regulatory space normally applied to guided missiles. You cannot legally make (sell/distribute?) a guided missile in the USA without the appropriate manufacturer’s licensing. The guidance system itself triggers this regulatory wall. Thrust vectoring for landing is fundamentally different in application, but it is still technically guiding a “missile” to a specific point of impact. People working on this as hobbyists are wise to make sure their projects are not seen as presenting an enforcement target, since they could easily be technically crossing the letter if not the intent of the regulations. Amateur rocketry exists in a little space between regulated “destructive devices” and unregulated “fireworks” and they try hard not to tempt regulators to further constrain their activities.
    - Shawnj2 3y ago
      It’s almost funny how little amateur rocketry is legally regulated, you can pretty much do anything you want to legally because practically people in charge of launch sites, etc. will not let you do dangerous shit, but for example without any certification you can buy 1 L1 motor at a time from HPR sites, with an L1 motor you can acquire 1 L2 motor at a time, and with an L2 you can acquire 1 L3 motor at a time so in effect an L2 will let you buy the highest power rocket motors as long as you do so one at a time. Of course no one will let you launch a rocket with 5 L3 motors as an L2 but in theory you could. Also yes code that lets you arbitrarily steer a rocket in any direction is software for a missile and goes under ITAR. I don’t think there’s anything that actually legally prevents you from doing it, but once you make something classified under ITAR it is now an ITAR product and there are limits to what you can publicly say about it, You can legally perform TVC +/- 5 degrees without it being under ITAR from what I’ve heard and a think publishing code for that would be fine, but in practice people probably don’t want to risk it and honestly it’s not that hard to implement yourself if you’re capable of building a TVC rocket anyways

walrus01 3y ago

Assuming he's in the US, he doesn't want his door kicked in by the FBI. No kidding. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=MTCR+missile https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=MTCR+miss... MTCR, ITAR, commerce control list related. amateur model rocket people who fly stuff in the black rock desert go out of their way to NOT incorporate active guidance systems, lest they run afoul of this.

teddyduncker 3y ago

Hi - Im the creator of the video, I put the ITAR there, but the main reason for not showing code was to prevent people with little experience from blindly using code which could be unsafe. There are a lot of young kids or folks with no prior knowledge about rockets trying to get into the hobby, which is great, but can be dangerous if they are using software without understanding what it does. I did say you can email if you want to learn more about it!

knodi123 3y ago
Thanks, that's interesting!