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Reading this article leaves me confused about what Oceangate was even trying to achieve. As I read, James Cameroon had been to the Titanic wreck 33 times. So t

Reading this article leaves me confused about what Oceangate was even trying to achieve. As I read, James Cameroon had been to the Titanic wreck 33 times. So that means, others have gone there as well. He has even been to the Marina trench. It is even mentioned that deep submergence diving is a mature art. As per CNN, even back in 2001, people went to the Titanic to get married. And they were able to go there for around $31K. So why was Oceangate trying to rebuild something that seemed like a solved problem. Why not just stand on the shoulders of existing giants and leverage existing sub designs that have been there. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/07/16/wedding.titanic/ http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/07/16/wedding.titanic/

cbsks 3y ago
Where did you get the $31k figure? The CNN article mentions £400,000 ($560,000). If you are correct about the $31k price, then it is definitely weird that Oceangate is so much more expensive. I assumed that Oceangate was attempting to make deep sea submarines more affordable.
- falcolas 3y ago
  > I assumed that Oceangate was attempting to make deep sea submarines more affordable. Why? Especially when their target audience is/was billionaires with plenty of money to spend on novel experiences. I imagine their pricing takes this into account.
  - hgsgm 3y ago
    Because they want to make more profit.
- christoph 3y ago
  This BBC article from 2001 states a price of $36k, but says the couple actually won their trip down - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1461368.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1461368.stm I agree that the pricing disparity is very odd, but then there is much that is very odd about this story. Maybe it's just another tragic story of human hubris. For instance, Hamish Harding seemed like a very accomplished aviator and adventurer, having lead the world record "One More Orbit" mission - the fastest circumnavigation of the globe via both poles, over 46hrs, in a Gulfstream G650ER. He holds the world record for the longest duration at full ocean depth by a crewed vessel - 4hrs+/2.88 miles along the sea floor of Challenger Deep, in Deep-Submergence Vehicle (DSV) Limiting Factor - a proper sub which is now technically owned by Gabe Newell I believe. Look at pictures of it - it's a very different beast to the Titan. He's been up in Blue Origin. Amongst many, many other things. He's not a stranger around highly experienced, competent people in very well engineered vehicles. I just don't understand how a man with that level of experience and knowledge didn't take one look at that sub and crew and instantly nope out. Does the desire for adventure just switch off the risk mitigation part of the brain? When you try and find solid information about how many deep sea missions were actually done in that sub, you're left in a mess of conflicting numbers and stories. Given the viewport glass was only rated to 1300m, and the hull was supposedly "rebuilt" due to cyclic fatigue in 2021[1], I simply can't believe any numbers like 13+ deep sea missions to the Titanic after that rebuild without catastrophe striking much sooner. How do you even rebuild a carbon fibre hull that was built from: "He said he had gotten the carbon fiber used to make the Titan at a big discount from Boeing because it was past its shelf-life for use in airplanes."[2] [1] - https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersible-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-saf... [2] - https://www.travelweekly.com/North-America-Travel/Mission-Titanic-part-2 https://www.travelweekly.com/North-America-Travel/Mission-Ti...
  - hgsgm 3y ago
    When you've worked with dozens of professional genius engineering companies, the idea that a clown is somehow running a fake one exits the realm of possibility for you. Same as when your company hires an idiot coworker who bullshits his way through the interview. Or a grossly incompetent pathological liar Presidential candidate...
mikepavone 3y ago
Pretty much all the other submersibles that can reach that depth, including the Mir used for that wedding, can only hold 2-3 people including the pilot. The Titan could hold 5 people
- hgsgm 3y ago
  Why does that matter? 3 trips vs 1 trip? The people who went didn't need to go all together.
  - PepperdineG 3y ago
    >Why does that matter? $$$
6nf 3y ago
Cameron's craft is single person only - James always went down alone.

cbsks 3y ago

Where did you get the $31k figure? The CNN article mentions £400,000 ($560,000). If you are correct about the $31k price, then it is definitely weird that Oceangate is so much more expensive. I assumed that Oceangate was attempting to make deep sea submarines more affordable.

falcolas 3y ago
> I assumed that Oceangate was attempting to make deep sea submarines more affordable. Why? Especially when their target audience is/was billionaires with plenty of money to spend on novel experiences. I imagine their pricing takes this into account.
- hgsgm 3y ago
  Because they want to make more profit.
christoph 3y ago
This BBC article from 2001 states a price of $36k, but says the couple actually won their trip down - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1461368.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1461368.stm I agree that the pricing disparity is very odd, but then there is much that is very odd about this story. Maybe it's just another tragic story of human hubris. For instance, Hamish Harding seemed like a very accomplished aviator and adventurer, having lead the world record "One More Orbit" mission - the fastest circumnavigation of the globe via both poles, over 46hrs, in a Gulfstream G650ER. He holds the world record for the longest duration at full ocean depth by a crewed vessel - 4hrs+/2.88 miles along the sea floor of Challenger Deep, in Deep-Submergence Vehicle (DSV) Limiting Factor - a proper sub which is now technically owned by Gabe Newell I believe. Look at pictures of it - it's a very different beast to the Titan. He's been up in Blue Origin. Amongst many, many other things. He's not a stranger around highly experienced, competent people in very well engineered vehicles. I just don't understand how a man with that level of experience and knowledge didn't take one look at that sub and crew and instantly nope out. Does the desire for adventure just switch off the risk mitigation part of the brain? When you try and find solid information about how many deep sea missions were actually done in that sub, you're left in a mess of conflicting numbers and stories. Given the viewport glass was only rated to 1300m, and the hull was supposedly "rebuilt" due to cyclic fatigue in 2021[1], I simply can't believe any numbers like 13+ deep sea missions to the Titanic after that rebuild without catastrophe striking much sooner. How do you even rebuild a carbon fibre hull that was built from: "He said he had gotten the carbon fiber used to make the Titan at a big discount from Boeing because it was past its shelf-life for use in airplanes."[2] [1] - https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersible-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-saf... [2] - https://www.travelweekly.com/North-America-Travel/Mission-Titanic-part-2 https://www.travelweekly.com/North-America-Travel/Mission-Ti...
- hgsgm 3y ago
  When you've worked with dozens of professional genius engineering companies, the idea that a clown is somehow running a fake one exits the realm of possibility for you. Same as when your company hires an idiot coworker who bullshits his way through the interview. Or a grossly incompetent pathological liar Presidential candidate...

mikepavone 3y ago

Pretty much all the other submersibles that can reach that depth, including the Mir used for that wedding, can only hold 2-3 people including the pilot. The Titan could hold 5 people

hgsgm 3y ago
Why does that matter? 3 trips vs 1 trip? The people who went didn't need to go all together.
- PepperdineG 3y ago
  >Why does that matter? $$$

6nf 3y ago

Cameron's craft is single person only - James always went down alone.