8 ms·

Comparing PHP, Perl, Python and Ruby

382 points by charlax 15y ago

laichzeit0 15y ago
Perl's treatment of regex still trumps all. It's so pleasant to use in so many ways. It's for this reason alone I will probably never bother "switching" to Python or Ruby.
- crusso 15y ago
  Since Ruby copies Perl's regex shortcuts (blah =~ /matchme/), what's the problem?
verelo 15y ago
This is great. Very handy for explaining to others the differences between various languages, and surprisingly enough until you get into the array functions i'm starting to feel like PHP isn't really that messy since reading this! Thanks for sharing, ill pass it on whenever a comparison is needed.
- leftnode 15y ago
  PHP5.4 also has the short syntax array initializer: $array = [1, 2, 3]; Edit: While PHP still has it's fair share of issues, a lot of the same complaints people had 5-8 years ago aren't valid, and it probably has no more or less oddities than any other scripting language at this point.
  - jacques_chester 15y ago
    The problem with PHP is that 99.99% of the code in circulation today isn't the shinier cleaned-up versions. It's PHP4 and PHP 5.0 and it's still chock-a-block with the storied mind-bending nastiness of yore.
    - gregbair 15y ago
      not true at all. Maybe if you're looking at old sites, but PHP5's been out for a long time now, and most of the code in circulation is made for 5.2 or higher. No serious MVC framework, for instance, will run on anything less than 5.2.
      - jacques_chester 15y ago
        Serious MVC frameworks are not the backbone of Wordpress, phpBB or dozens of other hairy monsters that make up the majority of CPU time spent on PHP execution. I mean Wordpress flat out resisted PHP 5.0 for years. Years. Everything had to be done in PHP4.
        jmathai 15y ago
        > I mean Wordpress flat out resisted PHP 5.0 for years. Years. Everything had to be done in PHP4. I presume that's because of the size of Wordpress' install base. The number of people who run their software on $9/month shared hosting environments is staggering. Many of those are late to upgrade PHP versions. Wordpress gets a lot of crap for being poorly written but the truth is that it's an example of software that works really well given some really unique circumstances. If the WP devs decided that their software didn't need to support the 99% of web servers out there then it wouldn't be nearly as ubiquitous as it is today.
        jacques_chester 15y ago
        Wordpress gets a lot of crap for being poorly written because it is poorly written. There's no great mystery here. Yes, they deal with lots of different configurations. This is not unique in the history of software development. It's called "portability" and many organisations seem to be able to achieve it without compromising quality. My searing, eye-boiling hatred for Wordpress comes from administering it for what is now nearly a decade. Every time I dive into the code I am frequently repulsed by it. The total absence of tests is my favourite "feature". I've seen multiple bugs closed with WORKSFORME that I was directly grappling with.
youlost_thegame 15y ago
Very, very thorough. A great resource, thanks!
- youlost_thegame 15y ago
  Wait... there's more on the homepage! http://hyperpolyglot.org/ http://hyperpolyglot.org/
- youlost_thegame 15y ago
  Empty comments can be ok if they're positive. There's nothing wrong with submitting a comment saying just "Thanks." What we especially discourage are comments that are empty and negative—comments that are mere name-calling. --http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
rll 15y ago
Note that anywhere you see array() in that list for PHP 5.4 you can replace it with [ ]'s. So the example that has: $a = array(1,2,array(3,4)); becomes: $a = [1,2,[3,4]]; Also 0b101010 works in 5.4.
- Klinky 15y ago
  True, but PHP 5.4 doesn't even have a stable release yet & many people haven't even adopted 5.3.
  - maratd 15y ago
    Just an FYI, but they are at the end of their testing the RC of 5.4, so it should be declared stable in about 2-3 weeks.
  - robryan 15y ago
    5.3 Come out in 2009, I has a small list of backwards compatibility breaking changes (http://www.php.net/manual/en/migration53.incompatible.php http://www.php.net/manual/en/migration53.incompatible.php), no reason for anyone really not to have adopted it.
    - mmj48 15y ago
      > many people haven't even adopted 5.3. > no reason for anyone really not to have adopted it. These things are not mutually exclusive. I.e. you could be write, but Klinky definitely is.
      - robryan 15y ago
        True, I think it is a valid point for arguments about language features though. Fair enough to say that anything in 5.4 isn't production ready yet or had the time to trickle down to hosts but you can't judge PHP on versions before 5.3 as anyone can put a small amount of effort in and have everything 5.3 has to offer.
    - creatio 15y ago
powersurge360 15y ago
PHP repl is actually php -a
- mikey_p 15y ago
  Note that this is not a traditional repl in the style of of Python or IRB that evaluates each line individually. With php -a you have to enter an entire script, and then exit to run it, and which point you can no longer interact with the variables, etc. Also it's super backwards in that you need to add <?php tags to turn interpretation on. If you really want a repl that's useful for PHP check out http://www.phpsh.org/ http://www.phpsh.org/ by Facebook.
  - powersurge360 15y ago
    No, you can do evaluation line by line, but it isn't exactly nice. Just typing php forces you to type in the entire script.
methoddk 15y ago
Bookmarked and forever using this to explain the differences between these. Thanks for the awesome resource!
snampall 15y ago
Nice. Useful and handy.
devy 15y ago
Even though there is no native "switch" statement in Python, the same control flow structure can be done with a dict construct: http://simonwillison.net/2004/may/7/switch/ http://simonwillison.net/2004/may/7/switch/
- hack_edu 15y ago
  Whenever the debate comes up in official channels, there is near-unanimous support for omitting it.
tikhonj 15y ago
Here's a simpler comparison with way more langauges: http://rigaux.org/language-study/syntax-across-languages/Strng.html#8 http://rigaux.org/language-study/syntax-across-languages/Str...
raymondh 15y ago
This is a wonderful recap of the different ways of expressing the same idea in different languages. It is a fine Rosetta Stone. That being said, it would also be useful to characterize features that are completely unique to a given language. For example, Python has 1) a unique and powerful version of super() for working with multiple inheritance; 2) it has generators (the yield statement) that allows state to be suspended and restarted (and allows data and/or exceptions to be passed back in to the generator); 3) the with-statement for managing contexts and for providing a new way to factor code; 4) easy-to-write class and function decorators; 5) metaclass support that provides full control over the creation of classes; 6) and descriptors for fine-control over attribute/method binding behavior. Collectively, these capabilities make the language more than just another syntax for expressing the same ideas as other languages.
- squiggly101 15y ago
  7) The iteration protocol, which allows user-defined classes to participate in all iteration contexts, such as the for loop.
- jrockway 15y ago
  That being said, it would also be useful to characterize features that are completely unique to a given language. Perl has all these features. 1) a unique and powerful version of super() for working with multiple inheritance Perl (with Moose) has before, after, around, override, and augment in addition to super. And, it has "Roles" so you don't have to resort to hacks like multiple inheritance to implement mixins or interfaces. 2) it has generators (the yield statement) that allows state to be suspended and restarted (and allows data and/or exceptions to be passed back in to the generator) Perl has the library Coro, which allows multiple Perl and C stacks. With this coroutine and call-with-current-continuation are implemented. 3) the with-statement for managing contexts and for providing a new way to factor code Perl has scope a few implementations of scope guards; Guard and Scope::Guard. It's not quite the same as with, because with's semantics around: with open_file('foo') as f: return f are unclear (f is closed but the object still exists). Perl mixes sub x { my $f = file('foo')->openr; return $f; # $f is still open and ready for reading by the caller } Emulating Python is still possible, however: sub x { my $f = file('foo')->openr; scope_guard { $f->close } return $f; # caller gets a closed file object } 4) easy-to-write class and function decorators This you don't really get, though you do get all of the things I've seen them used for in Python. You can even hack Perl syntax in a lexical scope, but that's evil so I will pretend it's impossible :) 5) metaclass support that provides full control over the creation of classes; 6) and descriptors for fine-control over attribute/method binding behavior Moose. And unlike Python, there are libraries that take advantage of this to provide tiny bits of OO functionality that you can pick and choose from. Look on CPAN for a MooseX:: module, and chances are that the set of libraries you choose to use to augment a class will all work together. The difference between Perl and Python is that Perl's features are implemented as modules, while Python's features are implemented in the core. That means that if you come up with a good idea, you can start using (and sharing) it immediately, while with Python, you have to wait until the next major release.
berntb 15y ago
A very useful page if you know one or two of those languages and need to do something in another one. A suggestion: For people doing some work in Perl, a review of the OO syntax might be critical. Both Moose and the old way. A note, re the repl part: I don't use a repl for Perl, I just write one liners in shell. Afaik, Perl is the best command line tool that exist, it is even a superset of awk. Edit: For named parameters the page might want to reference one of the CPAN modules doing that. Same goes for exceptions. The use of do to create blocks most everywhere might also be noted in e.g. the ternary operator. Unicode support should probably also be discussed. And so on.
rwmj 15y ago
[I wonder if this is a personal watershed for Hacker News?] These languages are essentially the same thing. I often write code in at least 3 of these languages most days, and I simply translate the minor differences between them in my head. "Hyperpolyglot" -- excess in many tongues -- I don't think so. Learn at least some static languages, assembler and some functional languages, and then post something interesting on HN. Well, I have plenty of karma to waste on noobs.
- mattdeboard 15y ago
  Nothing I love more than watching someone try way too hard to act "grizzled" and in the process make an idiot out of themselves. http://hyperpolyglot.org/ http://hyperpolyglot.org/
  - whateverer 15y ago
    Was that in response to his exhortation to learn different languages, or do you actually believe that Perl and its self-proclaimed successors have any profound differences?
    - vidarh 15y ago
      I think the point is that while the article link is to the scripting category, the site does in fact cover a lot more languages.
      - whateverer 15y ago
        Yeah, that was the first point. You can see a lot more variety of comparisons in the main page. The categories are a bit odd at times, but it's a good stab at being representative.
- rlander 15y ago
  I take it you spent more time writing your rant than actually navigating the site you're criticizing. Please take a look at the index.
joewadcan 15y ago
Very helpful!! Like a quick & easy Rosetta stone
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
ars 15y ago
Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2882070 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2882070 with lots of bug reports. I wonder if they incorporated all the changes suggested.
alexm920 15y ago
Wonderful reference for comparison! I admittedly haven't had time to pursue the whole table, but wanted to point out that there is indeed an increment and decrement in python: x += 1 x -= 1
- mistercow 15y ago
  They list those under "compound assignment operators", which makes sense given that += and -= are found in all of these languages. It's also worth noting that compound assignment operators do not form expressions in Python. So "i++" in PHP/Perl/Ruby is very different from "i += 1" in Python.
- balloot 15y ago
  An increment/decrement operator is unary and doesn't give you the ability to change the value by any more than one.
alberth 15y ago
Wish Lua was added to the list. Edit: Found Lua compared on the same site here: http://hyperpolyglot.org/embeddable http://hyperpolyglot.org/embeddable
citizenkeys 15y ago
sed begat awk. awk begat perl. perl begat python and ruby. python will get you a job at google. ruby will get you a job at twitter. php will get you a job at facebook.
- singingfish 15y ago
  perl will get you a job running the internet ;)
- jrockway 15y ago
  python will get you a job at google I used Perl for all of my job interviews at Google, and I work at Google. But Google is a Java and C++ company, with some Python around (but a bit of an anti-scripting culture as well).
- wildtype 15y ago
  ruby will get you a job at twitter. I heard that twitter are moving from ruby to scala.
  - desireco42 15y ago
    that was more then a year or two ago, they changed their mind in the meantime. they do have some cool software developed in scala I think.
    - densh 15y ago
      Do you have any support for this statement? Last time I checked they moved all of the api and backend infrastructure to Scala and were quite happy with it.
    - ramblerman 15y ago
      I too would like to get a reference for this. It sounds interesting, but it's the first I hear of it.
- garindra 15y ago
  I'm pretty sure the companies that you mentioned know enough about recruiting that they won't hire people solely based on the languages that they know. Skills transcend programming languages; especially among those similar-enough scripting languages.
smsm42 15y ago
Unfortunately tests page for PHP does not mention PHPUnit: http://www.phpunit.de/manual/3.6/en/index.html http://www.phpunit.de/manual/3.6/en/index.html which is the best solution for testing in PHP. Neither it mentions xdebug for debugging and xhprof for profiling.
Arabian 15y ago
The Perl described in this article is COMPLETE SHIT. He calls deprecated and improper libs for some functions, unnecessary libs in others, assumes improper or unoptimal syntax in other examples. The list goes on. Learn languages before releasing articles on them. He never even uses Perl's foreach in equivalency examples!! WTF.
- masklinn 15y ago
  Not sure it's a "he", it's a wiki-type thingie. Also, you can report bugs on the table if things are not correct.
notJim 15y ago
This is a really great effort, but I noticed a handful of areas where the PHP example was off. I wonder if people with more experience with the other languages noticed the same thing for their language. Some examples: Null test: $var === null // omitted isset($var) // actually checks if $var exists and is not null (apparently-- I actually didn't know about the not null part) Undefined variable access: it's a notice. Many people consider it best practice in PHP to treat notices as error, because things like this are notices. Add time duration strtotime('+10 minutes') is more typical than the objects Array out of bounds behavior again issues a notice.
- MattBearman 15y ago
  I noticed that block statements were missing from PHP, eg: using if(): ... endif; etc. instead of if(){ ... }
jablan 15y ago
"Passing by reference" section is wrong about Ruby (not sure about Python). Ruby passes everything by reference, it's only that integers are immutable so that the function can't alter them. Strings, though, are mutable: def foo s s.concat 'foo' end a = 'bar' foo a a # => "barfoo"
- rplnt 15y ago
  In python, strings are immutable as well.
- joesb 15y ago
  Niether Ruby or Python do "pass by reference". They both do "pass reference by value". Which is a big difference.
- sciurus 15y ago
  Not exactly. Let's tweak your example to create a new object in your method. def foo s s = 'foo' end a = 'bar' foo a puts a # => bar The assignment in the method doesn't change the object you "passed" in. Rather than passing by reference, think of Ruby as passing the value of a reference. For more examples and explanation, see http://khelll.com/blog/ruby/ruby-pass-by-value-or-by-reference/ http://khelll.com/blog/ruby/ruby-pass-by-value-or-by-referen...
- vidarh 15y ago
  Well, integers are immutable (and conceptually a singleton per value) unless you override stuff in FixNum and add instance variables. Here's an evil example that works at least in MRI 1.8.6: class Fixnum alias :realplus :+ def + b @a ||= 0 @a = @a.realplus(b) self.realplus(@a) end end The integer value itself is immutable, though. Of course all hell will break loose and adding instance variables in certain classes like Fixnum will be extra slow (as if there aren't enough other reasons not to), since MRI uses type-tagging for Fixnum, Symbol and a few others, and so since they're not "real" objects, if you do anything that requires one, it creates one that's stored in a hash table.
kirinan 15y ago
Very good comparison between all the languages, and like other people said: a nice Rosetta stone. With that said, it would be very useful to add a comparison of the database layer syntax as that it is, at least for a me, a common task in all of the scripting languages. I also agree with the comments about adding the features that are unique to the languages, as that would be extremely helpful.
- pavelkaroukin 15y ago
  there are quite a few options for syntax already in the mix, that people noticed already. If we will add DB-related stuff, it will confuse even more - too many options available in each language.
  - kirinan 15y ago
    Great point! Thanks for the response, and it makes sense.

382 points by charlax 15y ago

Perl's treatment of regex still trumps all. It's so pleasant to use in so many ways. It's for this reason alone I will probably never bother "switching" to Python or Ruby.

crusso 15y ago
Since Ruby copies Perl's regex shortcuts (blah =~ /matchme/), what's the problem?

verelo 15y ago

This is great. Very handy for explaining to others the differences between various languages, and surprisingly enough until you get into the array functions i'm starting to feel like PHP isn't really that messy since reading this! Thanks for sharing, ill pass it on whenever a comparison is needed.

leftnode 15y ago
PHP5.4 also has the short syntax array initializer: $array = [1, 2, 3]; Edit: While PHP still has it's fair share of issues, a lot of the same complaints people had 5-8 years ago aren't valid, and it probably has no more or less oddities than any other scripting language at this point.
- jacques_chester 15y ago
  The problem with PHP is that 99.99% of the code in circulation today isn't the shinier cleaned-up versions. It's PHP4 and PHP 5.0 and it's still chock-a-block with the storied mind-bending nastiness of yore.
  - gregbair 15y ago
    not true at all. Maybe if you're looking at old sites, but PHP5's been out for a long time now, and most of the code in circulation is made for 5.2 or higher. No serious MVC framework, for instance, will run on anything less than 5.2.
    - jacques_chester 15y ago
      Serious MVC frameworks are not the backbone of Wordpress, phpBB or dozens of other hairy monsters that make up the majority of CPU time spent on PHP execution. I mean Wordpress flat out resisted PHP 5.0 for years. Years. Everything had to be done in PHP4.
      - jmathai 15y ago
        > I mean Wordpress flat out resisted PHP 5.0 for years. Years. Everything had to be done in PHP4. I presume that's because of the size of Wordpress' install base. The number of people who run their software on $9/month shared hosting environments is staggering. Many of those are late to upgrade PHP versions. Wordpress gets a lot of crap for being poorly written but the truth is that it's an example of software that works really well given some really unique circumstances. If the WP devs decided that their software didn't need to support the 99% of web servers out there then it wouldn't be nearly as ubiquitous as it is today.
        jacques_chester 15y ago
        Wordpress gets a lot of crap for being poorly written because it is poorly written. There's no great mystery here. Yes, they deal with lots of different configurations. This is not unique in the history of software development. It's called "portability" and many organisations seem to be able to achieve it without compromising quality. My searing, eye-boiling hatred for Wordpress comes from administering it for what is now nearly a decade. Every time I dive into the code I am frequently repulsed by it. The total absence of tests is my favourite "feature". I've seen multiple bugs closed with WORKSFORME that I was directly grappling with.

youlost_thegame 15y ago

Very, very thorough. A great resource, thanks!

youlost_thegame 15y ago
Wait... there's more on the homepage! http://hyperpolyglot.org/ http://hyperpolyglot.org/
youlost_thegame 15y ago
Empty comments can be ok if they're positive. There's nothing wrong with submitting a comment saying just "Thanks." What we especially discourage are comments that are empty and negative—comments that are mere name-calling. --http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

rll 15y ago

Note that anywhere you see array() in that list for PHP 5.4 you can replace it with [ ]'s. So the example that has: $a = array(1,2,array(3,4)); becomes: $a = [1,2,[3,4]]; Also 0b101010 works in 5.4.

Klinky 15y ago
True, but PHP 5.4 doesn't even have a stable release yet & many people haven't even adopted 5.3.
- maratd 15y ago
  Just an FYI, but they are at the end of their testing the RC of 5.4, so it should be declared stable in about 2-3 weeks.
- robryan 15y ago
  5.3 Come out in 2009, I has a small list of backwards compatibility breaking changes (http://www.php.net/manual/en/migration53.incompatible.php http://www.php.net/manual/en/migration53.incompatible.php), no reason for anyone really not to have adopted it.
  - mmj48 15y ago
    > many people haven't even adopted 5.3. > no reason for anyone really not to have adopted it. These things are not mutually exclusive. I.e. you could be write, but Klinky definitely is.
    - robryan 15y ago
      True, I think it is a valid point for arguments about language features though. Fair enough to say that anything in 5.4 isn't production ready yet or had the time to trickle down to hosts but you can't judge PHP on versions before 5.3 as anyone can put a small amount of effort in and have everything 5.3 has to offer.
  - creatio 15y ago

powersurge360 15y ago

PHP repl is actually php -a

mikey_p 15y ago
Note that this is not a traditional repl in the style of of Python or IRB that evaluates each line individually. With php -a you have to enter an entire script, and then exit to run it, and which point you can no longer interact with the variables, etc. Also it's super backwards in that you need to add <?php tags to turn interpretation on. If you really want a repl that's useful for PHP check out http://www.phpsh.org/ http://www.phpsh.org/ by Facebook.
- powersurge360 15y ago
  No, you can do evaluation line by line, but it isn't exactly nice. Just typing php forces you to type in the entire script.

methoddk 15y ago

Bookmarked and forever using this to explain the differences between these. Thanks for the awesome resource!

snampall 15y ago

Nice. Useful and handy.

devy 15y ago

Even though there is no native "switch" statement in Python, the same control flow structure can be done with a dict construct: http://simonwillison.net/2004/may/7/switch/ http://simonwillison.net/2004/may/7/switch/

hack_edu 15y ago
Whenever the debate comes up in official channels, there is near-unanimous support for omitting it.

tikhonj 15y ago

Here's a simpler comparison with way more langauges: http://rigaux.org/language-study/syntax-across-languages/Strng.html#8 http://rigaux.org/language-study/syntax-across-languages/Str...

raymondh 15y ago

This is a wonderful recap of the different ways of expressing the same idea in different languages. It is a fine Rosetta Stone. That being said, it would also be useful to characterize features that are completely unique to a given language. For example, Python has 1) a unique and powerful version of super() for working with multiple inheritance; 2) it has generators (the yield statement) that allows state to be suspended and restarted (and allows data and/or exceptions to be passed back in to the generator); 3) the with-statement for managing contexts and for providing a new way to factor code; 4) easy-to-write class and function decorators; 5) metaclass support that provides full control over the creation of classes; 6) and descriptors for fine-control over attribute/method binding behavior. Collectively, these capabilities make the language more than just another syntax for expressing the same ideas as other languages.

squiggly101 15y ago
7) The iteration protocol, which allows user-defined classes to participate in all iteration contexts, such as the for loop.
jrockway 15y ago
That being said, it would also be useful to characterize features that are completely unique to a given language. Perl has all these features. 1) a unique and powerful version of super() for working with multiple inheritance Perl (with Moose) has before, after, around, override, and augment in addition to super. And, it has "Roles" so you don't have to resort to hacks like multiple inheritance to implement mixins or interfaces. 2) it has generators (the yield statement) that allows state to be suspended and restarted (and allows data and/or exceptions to be passed back in to the generator) Perl has the library Coro, which allows multiple Perl and C stacks. With this coroutine and call-with-current-continuation are implemented. 3) the with-statement for managing contexts and for providing a new way to factor code Perl has scope a few implementations of scope guards; Guard and Scope::Guard. It's not quite the same as with, because with's semantics around: with open_file('foo') as f: return f are unclear (f is closed but the object still exists). Perl mixes sub x { my $f = file('foo')->openr; return $f; # $f is still open and ready for reading by the caller } Emulating Python is still possible, however: sub x { my $f = file('foo')->openr; scope_guard { $f->close } return $f; # caller gets a closed file object } 4) easy-to-write class and function decorators This you don't really get, though you do get all of the things I've seen them used for in Python. You can even hack Perl syntax in a lexical scope, but that's evil so I will pretend it's impossible :) 5) metaclass support that provides full control over the creation of classes; 6) and descriptors for fine-control over attribute/method binding behavior Moose. And unlike Python, there are libraries that take advantage of this to provide tiny bits of OO functionality that you can pick and choose from. Look on CPAN for a MooseX:: module, and chances are that the set of libraries you choose to use to augment a class will all work together. The difference between Perl and Python is that Perl's features are implemented as modules, while Python's features are implemented in the core. That means that if you come up with a good idea, you can start using (and sharing) it immediately, while with Python, you have to wait until the next major release.

berntb 15y ago

A very useful page if you know one or two of those languages and need to do something in another one. A suggestion: For people doing some work in Perl, a review of the OO syntax might be critical. Both Moose and the old way. A note, re the repl part: I don't use a repl for Perl, I just write one liners in shell. Afaik, Perl is the best command line tool that exist, it is even a superset of awk. Edit: For named parameters the page might want to reference one of the CPAN modules doing that. Same goes for exceptions. The use of do to create blocks most everywhere might also be noted in e.g. the ternary operator. Unicode support should probably also be discussed. And so on.

rwmj 15y ago

[I wonder if this is a personal watershed for Hacker News?] These languages are essentially the same thing. I often write code in at least 3 of these languages most days, and I simply translate the minor differences between them in my head. "Hyperpolyglot" -- excess in many tongues -- I don't think so. Learn at least some static languages, assembler and some functional languages, and then post something interesting on HN. Well, I have plenty of karma to waste on noobs.

mattdeboard 15y ago
Nothing I love more than watching someone try way too hard to act "grizzled" and in the process make an idiot out of themselves. http://hyperpolyglot.org/ http://hyperpolyglot.org/
- whateverer 15y ago
  Was that in response to his exhortation to learn different languages, or do you actually believe that Perl and its self-proclaimed successors have any profound differences?
  - vidarh 15y ago
    I think the point is that while the article link is to the scripting category, the site does in fact cover a lot more languages.
    - whateverer 15y ago
      Yeah, that was the first point. You can see a lot more variety of comparisons in the main page. The categories are a bit odd at times, but it's a good stab at being representative.
rlander 15y ago
I take it you spent more time writing your rant than actually navigating the site you're criticizing. Please take a look at the index.

joewadcan 15y ago

Very helpful!! Like a quick & easy Rosetta stone

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

ars 15y ago

Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2882070 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2882070 with lots of bug reports. I wonder if they incorporated all the changes suggested.

alexm920 15y ago

Wonderful reference for comparison! I admittedly haven't had time to pursue the whole table, but wanted to point out that there is indeed an increment and decrement in python: x += 1 x -= 1

mistercow 15y ago
They list those under "compound assignment operators", which makes sense given that += and -= are found in all of these languages. It's also worth noting that compound assignment operators do not form expressions in Python. So "i++" in PHP/Perl/Ruby is very different from "i += 1" in Python.
balloot 15y ago
An increment/decrement operator is unary and doesn't give you the ability to change the value by any more than one.

alberth 15y ago

Wish Lua was added to the list. Edit: Found Lua compared on the same site here: http://hyperpolyglot.org/embeddable http://hyperpolyglot.org/embeddable

citizenkeys 15y ago

sed begat awk. awk begat perl. perl begat python and ruby. python will get you a job at google. ruby will get you a job at twitter. php will get you a job at facebook.

singingfish 15y ago
perl will get you a job running the internet ;)
jrockway 15y ago
python will get you a job at google I used Perl for all of my job interviews at Google, and I work at Google. But Google is a Java and C++ company, with some Python around (but a bit of an anti-scripting culture as well).
wildtype 15y ago
ruby will get you a job at twitter. I heard that twitter are moving from ruby to scala.
- desireco42 15y ago
  that was more then a year or two ago, they changed their mind in the meantime. they do have some cool software developed in scala I think.
  - densh 15y ago
    Do you have any support for this statement? Last time I checked they moved all of the api and backend infrastructure to Scala and were quite happy with it.
  - ramblerman 15y ago
    I too would like to get a reference for this. It sounds interesting, but it's the first I hear of it.
garindra 15y ago
I'm pretty sure the companies that you mentioned know enough about recruiting that they won't hire people solely based on the languages that they know. Skills transcend programming languages; especially among those similar-enough scripting languages.

smsm42 15y ago

Unfortunately tests page for PHP does not mention PHPUnit: http://www.phpunit.de/manual/3.6/en/index.html http://www.phpunit.de/manual/3.6/en/index.html which is the best solution for testing in PHP. Neither it mentions xdebug for debugging and xhprof for profiling.

Arabian 15y ago

The Perl described in this article is COMPLETE SHIT. He calls deprecated and improper libs for some functions, unnecessary libs in others, assumes improper or unoptimal syntax in other examples. The list goes on. Learn languages before releasing articles on them. He never even uses Perl's foreach in equivalency examples!! WTF.

masklinn 15y ago
Not sure it's a "he", it's a wiki-type thingie. Also, you can report bugs on the table if things are not correct.

notJim 15y ago

This is a really great effort, but I noticed a handful of areas where the PHP example was off. I wonder if people with more experience with the other languages noticed the same thing for their language. Some examples: Null test: $var === null // omitted isset($var) // actually checks if $var exists and is not null (apparently-- I actually didn't know about the not null part) Undefined variable access: it's a notice. Many people consider it best practice in PHP to treat notices as error, because things like this are notices. Add time duration strtotime('+10 minutes') is more typical than the objects Array out of bounds behavior again issues a notice.

MattBearman 15y ago
I noticed that block statements were missing from PHP, eg: using if(): ... endif; etc. instead of if(){ ... }

jablan 15y ago

"Passing by reference" section is wrong about Ruby (not sure about Python). Ruby passes everything by reference, it's only that integers are immutable so that the function can't alter them. Strings, though, are mutable: def foo s s.concat 'foo' end a = 'bar' foo a a # => "barfoo"

rplnt 15y ago
In python, strings are immutable as well.
joesb 15y ago
Niether Ruby or Python do "pass by reference". They both do "pass reference by value". Which is a big difference.
sciurus 15y ago
Not exactly. Let's tweak your example to create a new object in your method. def foo s s = 'foo' end a = 'bar' foo a puts a # => bar The assignment in the method doesn't change the object you "passed" in. Rather than passing by reference, think of Ruby as passing the value of a reference. For more examples and explanation, see http://khelll.com/blog/ruby/ruby-pass-by-value-or-by-reference/ http://khelll.com/blog/ruby/ruby-pass-by-value-or-by-referen...
vidarh 15y ago
Well, integers are immutable (and conceptually a singleton per value) unless you override stuff in FixNum and add instance variables. Here's an evil example that works at least in MRI 1.8.6: class Fixnum alias :realplus :+ def + b @a ||= 0 @a = @a.realplus(b) self.realplus(@a) end end The integer value itself is immutable, though. Of course all hell will break loose and adding instance variables in certain classes like Fixnum will be extra slow (as if there aren't enough other reasons not to), since MRI uses type-tagging for Fixnum, Symbol and a few others, and so since they're not "real" objects, if you do anything that requires one, it creates one that's stored in a hash table.

kirinan 15y ago

Very good comparison between all the languages, and like other people said: a nice Rosetta stone. With that said, it would be very useful to add a comparison of the database layer syntax as that it is, at least for a me, a common task in all of the scripting languages. I also agree with the comments about adding the features that are unique to the languages, as that would be extremely helpful.

pavelkaroukin 15y ago
there are quite a few options for syntax already in the mix, that people noticed already. If we will add DB-related stuff, it will confuse even more - too many options available in each language.
- kirinan 15y ago
  Great point! Thanks for the response, and it makes sense.