6 ms·

Playing sounds of healthy coral on reefs makes fish return (2019)

89 points by thinkingemote 3y ago

causality0 3y ago
So would the expected outcome of this be an instantly-healthy reef, or are we tricking a bunch of fish into going somewhere that can't support them?
- evolve2k 3y ago
  I think the conception is that work can be done to restore the reef and then this can be utilised to promote the newly revived reef to attract fish etc back.
  - chongli 3y ago
    There’s a lot of fish that feed on corals. I would worry that inviting the fish back before the reefs are well established could cause the corals to get eaten and wiped out.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  They say that instantly healthy isn't expected, but I expect that this could help some reefs that are recovering, especially since: > However, he said that his previous research published in the journal PLOS ONE found that despite not having ears, coral larvae also seemed to use sound to find and settle on reefs. ... > "[But] there's the opportunity that if you play healthy reef sounds you may bring back a much richer reef community than just fish."
- klyrs 3y ago
  Perhaps it's more like the stores that play classical music because teens won't think it's cool to hang out there
  - gumby 3y ago
    Depends on the teens.
- cratermoon 3y ago
  Sirens call
- dec0dedab0de 3y ago
  Last year I volunteered for a few hours at a coral farm operated by a non profit that restores reefs. I didn't even know it was possible to grow coral before that. I would assume technology like this would be useful after newly planted coral was established, or maybe at an artificial reef like a sunken ship.
  - joshxyz 3y ago
    what we can plant corals? holy shit i never knew this
    - DANmode 3y ago
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hTvGTkDpsI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hTvGTkDpsI
optimalsolver 3y ago
Bait-and-switch. No pun intended.
- Terr_ 3y ago
  "Switch-on Bait" too. Makes me think of using lights to attract certain fish... although I imagine the susceptible are getting selected-against pretty heavily when it comes to evolutionary pressures by now.
- kimburgess 3y ago
  Catfishing.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  Fish, the easiest living organism to bait.
zx8080 3y ago
Does the fish then die from starvation?
seriousman123 3y ago
In the ethereal melody of a once thriving reef, we perceive a poignant echo of profound loss, reminiscent of hearing the tender voice of a dearly departed beloved. Drawn inexorably towards it, like a moth entranced by the siren call of a flame, we seek the comforting symphony of life that once flourished. Yet, akin to the cruel illusion of pursuing the ghostly whispers of our past, we know the vibrant chorus we seek has danced away into oblivion. Akin to the article's title, the pain of this elusive quest is a melancholic symphony, a mournful reminder of the vibrant life that once was, and the silent void that has come to be.
- ravetcofx 3y ago
  I don't want accuse by any means was it's as it's beautifully written, but did you write this or GPT4?
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    GPT 4 does not write nearly this well, in my experience.
    - moffkalast 3y ago
      "In the eloquent prose spun by the digital loom of GPT-4, we recognize a surprising reflection of our own cognitive prowess, as if confronted by the skilful articulation of a revered mentor. Compelled towards it, akin to a scholar drawn by the magnetic pull of an unseen truth, we explore the intricate latticework of sentences and thoughts it masterfully weaves. Yet, much like the deceptive mirage of a conversation with a conscious entity, we understand the intellectual dance we are enraptured by is but the result of advanced algorithms and machine learning. Mirroring the theme of this discourse, the marvel of this technological feat is a bittersweet sonnet—a fascinating testament to the power of human ingenuity that has breathed life into this artificial intellect, and a poignant indication of the silent absence of genuine understanding beneath its surface." I mean it's close, if a bit less on point.
      - 3y ago
treeman79 3y ago
Calling fish with a phone is also a good way to bring in the fish. https://oceansciencehistory.com/2013/10/12/phoning-fish-the-strange-world-of-electrofishing/ https://oceansciencehistory.com/2013/10/12/phoning-fish-the-...
jsjohnst 3y ago
What’s even more interesting is the connection between ocean acidification and underwater sound. There’s preliminary research suggesting that the acidity reduces the dampening and the ocean is getting louder, which interferes with fish’s ability to hear each other. Here’s one link with more details: https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/290413#:~:text=As%20the%20ocean%20becomes%20more%20acidic%2C%20sound%20absorption%20at%2010,lose%20the%20same%20amount%20of https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/290413#:~:...
DigiDigiorno 3y ago
"[Coral larvae] don't have ears but somehow they're attracted to healthy reef sounds," he said. "Maybe they can sense the vibrations with their cilia [tiny hair-like appendages], but we don't know.". This sounds like more of a philosophical question, but is there a difference between hearing and sensing vibrations? Is there a certain level of signal processing required for hearing? Like, I can sense vibrations with my fingers, but I wouldn't call that hearing.
- deepnet 3y ago
  Here is a dry land analogue. [1] Tree roots grow towards the sound of water. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-magazine/plants-can-hear-running-water https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-maga...
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  There’s something like the human audible spectrum similar to the human visible light spectrum. We know for a fact that animals see and hear differently than we do by observing parts of the spectrum that humans cannot.
- kimburgess 3y ago
  It's physiological rather than philosophical. Auditory stimuli are sensed through your ear and tactile through the somatosensory system (in humans). There's some crossover in the frequencies both can detect. There's also some potential crossover in how these may be perceived. For example, experiments which show you may in fact be able to 'hear' through your fingers; https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-06855-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-06855-8.
- pluijzer 3y ago
  Interesting, Maybe it has to do with the extra analyses that the brain performs on hearing. What I hear is not the raw vibration but a amonst other things a fourier transform of it. i hear a distinct pitch. The brain uses the harmonic overtones of sounds to group them together. When I feel vibrations with my finger I just feel slower or faster vibrations. By the way, sometimes I hear a sound so low that I am confused whether I hear or feel it.
westurner 3y ago
Coral reef restoration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_reef_restoration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_reef_restoration "Coral restoration – A systematic review of current methods, successes, failures and future directions" (2020) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0226631 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... ; citations of https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=5,47&sciodt=0,47&cites=6041058767790396068&scipsc=&q=&scisbd=1 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=5,47&sciodt=... Sunscreen > Environmental effects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunscreen#Environmental_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunscreen#Environmental_effect... : > Additionally, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has indicated that coral decline is associated with effects from climate change (warming oceans, rising water levels, acidification), overfishing, and pollution from agriculture, wastewater, and urban run-off.[155] Oxybenzone > Environmental effects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxybenzone#Environmental_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxybenzone#Environmental_effec... : > [Oxybenzone-containing sunscreen is now banned] in many areas [45] such as Palau, [46] Hawaii, [5] nature reserves in Mexico, Bonaire, the Marshall Islands, the United States Virgin Islands, Thailand's marine natural parks, [47] the Northern Mariana Islands, [48] and Aruba. [49]
- westurner 3y ago
  Thanks coral restoration volunteers! Are there already coral restoration drones / RUVs? Is there a SAR Synthetic Aperture Radar -like imaging capability for mapping coral health; with sensor fusion? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic-aperture_radar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic-aperture_radar Sensor fusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensor_fusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensor_fusion "Bacterial sensors send a jolt of electricity when triggered" https://news.rice.edu/news/2022/bacterial-sensors-send-jolt-electricity-when-triggered https://news.rice.edu/news/2022/bacterial-sensors-send-jolt-... re: sensor nets: https://twitter.com/westurner/status/1612605800576335874 https://twitter.com/westurner/status/1612605800576335874 ... ansible-OpenWRT, [DuckLink] LoRa, MEMS wave power LoRa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRa #Goal14: Life below water: https://www.globalgoals.org/goals/14-life-below-water/ https://www.globalgoals.org/goals/14-life-below-water/ #SDG14: Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development : https://sdgs.un.org/goals/goal14 https://sdgs.un.org/goals/goal14 Do coral fragments have to be planted ashore or could they be ~transplanted by a drone?
at_a_remove 3y ago
"What do you do for a living?" "Basically, I make machines that lie to fish." I know there's a very good reason for all of it but sometimes I try to imagine explaining our jobs to people of several centuries prior. It's almost impossible to do without having about six whys in the list and it occurs to me that civilization is an ever-increasing layers of why atop one another.
Proven 3y ago
Wait, I thought Aussie coral reefs died due to global warming?
amriksohata 3y ago
We mess up the environment with artificial stuff, so woo lets put up some more artificial stuff to fix it, oh wait what impact will that have?
leaving 3y ago
Now we have a viable model that will allow us to study disappointment in fish.

89 points by thinkingemote 3y ago

So would the expected outcome of this be an instantly-healthy reef, or are we tricking a bunch of fish into going somewhere that can't support them?

evolve2k 3y ago
I think the conception is that work can be done to restore the reef and then this can be utilised to promote the newly revived reef to attract fish etc back.
- chongli 3y ago
  There’s a lot of fish that feed on corals. I would worry that inviting the fish back before the reefs are well established could cause the corals to get eaten and wiped out.
anonymouskimmer 3y ago
They say that instantly healthy isn't expected, but I expect that this could help some reefs that are recovering, especially since: > However, he said that his previous research published in the journal PLOS ONE found that despite not having ears, coral larvae also seemed to use sound to find and settle on reefs. ... > "[But] there's the opportunity that if you play healthy reef sounds you may bring back a much richer reef community than just fish."
klyrs 3y ago
Perhaps it's more like the stores that play classical music because teens won't think it's cool to hang out there
- gumby 3y ago
  Depends on the teens.
cratermoon 3y ago
Sirens call
dec0dedab0de 3y ago
Last year I volunteered for a few hours at a coral farm operated by a non profit that restores reefs. I didn't even know it was possible to grow coral before that. I would assume technology like this would be useful after newly planted coral was established, or maybe at an artificial reef like a sunken ship.
- joshxyz 3y ago
  what we can plant corals? holy shit i never knew this
  - DANmode 3y ago
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hTvGTkDpsI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hTvGTkDpsI

optimalsolver 3y ago

Bait-and-switch. No pun intended.

Terr_ 3y ago
"Switch-on Bait" too. Makes me think of using lights to attract certain fish... although I imagine the susceptible are getting selected-against pretty heavily when it comes to evolutionary pressures by now.
kimburgess 3y ago
Catfishing.
moffkalast 3y ago
Fish, the easiest living organism to bait.

zx8080 3y ago

Does the fish then die from starvation?

seriousman123 3y ago

In the ethereal melody of a once thriving reef, we perceive a poignant echo of profound loss, reminiscent of hearing the tender voice of a dearly departed beloved. Drawn inexorably towards it, like a moth entranced by the siren call of a flame, we seek the comforting symphony of life that once flourished. Yet, akin to the cruel illusion of pursuing the ghostly whispers of our past, we know the vibrant chorus we seek has danced away into oblivion. Akin to the article's title, the pain of this elusive quest is a melancholic symphony, a mournful reminder of the vibrant life that once was, and the silent void that has come to be.

ravetcofx 3y ago
I don't want accuse by any means was it's as it's beautifully written, but did you write this or GPT4?
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  GPT 4 does not write nearly this well, in my experience.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    "In the eloquent prose spun by the digital loom of GPT-4, we recognize a surprising reflection of our own cognitive prowess, as if confronted by the skilful articulation of a revered mentor. Compelled towards it, akin to a scholar drawn by the magnetic pull of an unseen truth, we explore the intricate latticework of sentences and thoughts it masterfully weaves. Yet, much like the deceptive mirage of a conversation with a conscious entity, we understand the intellectual dance we are enraptured by is but the result of advanced algorithms and machine learning. Mirroring the theme of this discourse, the marvel of this technological feat is a bittersweet sonnet—a fascinating testament to the power of human ingenuity that has breathed life into this artificial intellect, and a poignant indication of the silent absence of genuine understanding beneath its surface." I mean it's close, if a bit less on point.
    - 3y ago

treeman79 3y ago

Calling fish with a phone is also a good way to bring in the fish. https://oceansciencehistory.com/2013/10/12/phoning-fish-the-strange-world-of-electrofishing/ https://oceansciencehistory.com/2013/10/12/phoning-fish-the-...

jsjohnst 3y ago

What’s even more interesting is the connection between ocean acidification and underwater sound. There’s preliminary research suggesting that the acidity reduces the dampening and the ocean is getting louder, which interferes with fish’s ability to hear each other. Here’s one link with more details: https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/290413#:~:text=As%20the%20ocean%20becomes%20more%20acidic%2C%20sound%20absorption%20at%2010,lose%20the%20same%20amount%20of https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/290413#:~:...

DigiDigiorno 3y ago

"[Coral larvae] don't have ears but somehow they're attracted to healthy reef sounds," he said. "Maybe they can sense the vibrations with their cilia [tiny hair-like appendages], but we don't know.". This sounds like more of a philosophical question, but is there a difference between hearing and sensing vibrations? Is there a certain level of signal processing required for hearing? Like, I can sense vibrations with my fingers, but I wouldn't call that hearing.

deepnet 3y ago
Here is a dry land analogue. [1] Tree roots grow towards the sound of water. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-magazine/plants-can-hear-running-water https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-maga...
bobthepanda 3y ago
There’s something like the human audible spectrum similar to the human visible light spectrum. We know for a fact that animals see and hear differently than we do by observing parts of the spectrum that humans cannot.
kimburgess 3y ago
It's physiological rather than philosophical. Auditory stimuli are sensed through your ear and tactile through the somatosensory system (in humans). There's some crossover in the frequencies both can detect. There's also some potential crossover in how these may be perceived. For example, experiments which show you may in fact be able to 'hear' through your fingers; https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-06855-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-06855-8.
pluijzer 3y ago
Interesting, Maybe it has to do with the extra analyses that the brain performs on hearing. What I hear is not the raw vibration but a amonst other things a fourier transform of it. i hear a distinct pitch. The brain uses the harmonic overtones of sounds to group them together. When I feel vibrations with my finger I just feel slower or faster vibrations. By the way, sometimes I hear a sound so low that I am confused whether I hear or feel it.

westurner 3y ago

Coral reef restoration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_reef_restoration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_reef_restoration "Coral restoration – A systematic review of current methods, successes, failures and future directions" (2020) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0226631 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... ; citations of https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=5,47&sciodt=0,47&cites=6041058767790396068&scipsc=&q=&scisbd=1 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=5,47&sciodt=... Sunscreen > Environmental effects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunscreen#Environmental_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunscreen#Environmental_effect... : > Additionally, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has indicated that coral decline is associated with effects from climate change (warming oceans, rising water levels, acidification), overfishing, and pollution from agriculture, wastewater, and urban run-off.[155] Oxybenzone > Environmental effects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxybenzone#Environmental_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxybenzone#Environmental_effec... : > [Oxybenzone-containing sunscreen is now banned] in many areas [45] such as Palau, [46] Hawaii, [5] nature reserves in Mexico, Bonaire, the Marshall Islands, the United States Virgin Islands, Thailand's marine natural parks, [47] the Northern Mariana Islands, [48] and Aruba. [49]

westurner 3y ago
Thanks coral restoration volunteers! Are there already coral restoration drones / RUVs? Is there a SAR Synthetic Aperture Radar -like imaging capability for mapping coral health; with sensor fusion? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic-aperture_radar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic-aperture_radar Sensor fusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensor_fusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensor_fusion "Bacterial sensors send a jolt of electricity when triggered" https://news.rice.edu/news/2022/bacterial-sensors-send-jolt-electricity-when-triggered https://news.rice.edu/news/2022/bacterial-sensors-send-jolt-... re: sensor nets: https://twitter.com/westurner/status/1612605800576335874 https://twitter.com/westurner/status/1612605800576335874 ... ansible-OpenWRT, [DuckLink] LoRa, MEMS wave power LoRa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRa #Goal14: Life below water: https://www.globalgoals.org/goals/14-life-below-water/ https://www.globalgoals.org/goals/14-life-below-water/ #SDG14: Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development : https://sdgs.un.org/goals/goal14 https://sdgs.un.org/goals/goal14 Do coral fragments have to be planted ashore or could they be ~transplanted by a drone?

at_a_remove 3y ago

"What do you do for a living?" "Basically, I make machines that lie to fish." I know there's a very good reason for all of it but sometimes I try to imagine explaining our jobs to people of several centuries prior. It's almost impossible to do without having about six whys in the list and it occurs to me that civilization is an ever-increasing layers of why atop one another.

Proven 3y ago

Wait, I thought Aussie coral reefs died due to global warming?

amriksohata 3y ago

We mess up the environment with artificial stuff, so woo lets put up some more artificial stuff to fix it, oh wait what impact will that have?

leaving 3y ago

Now we have a viable model that will allow us to study disappointment in fish.