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> No one understands female founders better than Jessica. But it's unlikely anyone will ever hear her speak candidly about the topic. She ventured a toe in that

> No one understands female founders better than Jessica. But it's unlikely anyone will ever hear her speak candidly about the topic. She ventured a toe in that water a while ago, and the reaction was so violent that she decided "never again." I wonder how much wisdom has been lost bc of this effect. I feel like society needs to create a much larger incentive for thoughtful people to share their wisdom. Today, you stand to gain status & wealth, but a lot of thoughtful people like Jessica don't care about that. I think the only solution is to somehow protect them from the disincentive (backlash from the internet mob), but I don't know how.

burnished 3y ago
Doesn't the phrase 'pearls before swine' refer basically to this situation? Basically I don't think it's something you can do in the presence of a thing like twitter because of the participants whose goal isn't communication. Which is fine. The wisdom isn't lost, its just not as widely available.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  > Which is fine. The wisdom isn't lost, its just not as widely available. It's not fine though. Our political and economic spheres have been run by the swine for too long, and the planet's back is breaking. The second order effects of only giving the brash and thick-hided a voice in society are everywhere, causing permanent harms. Let's start making space for the wise and sensitive types, and make pearls abundant.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - afarrell 3y ago
    Libraries are a solution to this problem. Print the wisdom on thinly-sliced trees and place it in a location which requires someone to get out of the house and engage with their community.
  - burnished 3y ago
    Sure, I'd laude you for pursuing that mission. You seem to be implying that this is a recent phenomenon of some kind though and I don't think it is. Just something to keep in mind! Not intended in the spirit of a damning critique or reason not to try.
    - mandmandam 3y ago
      > You seem to be implying that this is a recent phenomenon of some kind though Pretty recent, in the scheme of things - only the last few thousand years or so. I do think we can turn it around; I mean, we fuckin better.
balls187 3y ago
I doubt the violent reaction was based on anything other than gender.
- bell-cot 3y ago
  Yeah, very probably. But there's no chance of truth nor justice once the Internet Hate Machine really gets going.
Jun8 3y ago
For the curious, I think this is what pg is referring to: https://valleywag.gawker.com/paul-graham-says-women-havent-been-hacking-for-the-pa-1490581236 https://valleywag.gawker.com/paul-graham-says-women-havent-b... (so glad that “news site” is dead BTW). He made some Summers-like foray on female founder’s abilities, I remember it was a big deal at the time, now I don’t know if many people remember it (note to self about any moral battle du jour that seem so important). I have no data to back this up but always thought that this brouhaha was a big reason pg moved on from YC, not that he was ousted or anything, but didn’t want to deal with this crowd. Jessica Livingstone got embroiled, too. Here’s a more recent, gossipy take: https://news.yahoo.com/y-combinator-entrepreneurs-were-kicked-021650112.html https://news.yahoo.com/y-combinator-entrepreneurs-were-kicke...
- chris_wot 3y ago
  I seem to recall it was “The Information” that was the chief instigator.
  - Jun8 3y ago
    You’re right, Valley Wag summarized the interview done by The Information: https://www.theinformation.com/articles/yc-s-paul-graham-the-complete-interview https://www.theinformation.com/articles/yc-s-paul-graham-the...
- MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
  Just when you think your opinion on journalists cannot possibly go any lower, they are going the extra mile.
- bushwald 3y ago
  Wow. Now I really don't understand the cult-like reverence for PG on here. That he begins his post about Livingstone by referring to her as the "mom" of YC corroborates the Gawker piece in my mind.
  - detaro 3y ago
    "cult-like reverence"? People love making fun of PG here
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tshaddox 3y ago
I’m not familiar with this incident, and if it was truly violent then I agree that it’s tragic and likely to result in a loss of valuable voices. But all too often people express opinions publicly, then receive criticism of those opinions publicly, and conclude “wow, these days you can’t even express opinions any more.” This is especially common with wealthy and/or powerful people who are not accustomed to receiving criticism from the public.
- crashingintoyou 3y ago
  Jessica Livingston's own words (https://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/the-sound-of-silence https://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/the-sound-of-silence) """Not surprisingly, the juiciest targets for this sort of willful misinterpretation are organizations and people who are successful. They have power, and power makes them both interesting and envied; I teach founders they all have to be prepared for this as their startups grow. In my blog post, "Subtle Mid-Stage Startup Pitfalls" I said: You can't prevent yourself from being a target. It's an automatic consequence of being successful. So the best you can do is react in the right way when people attack you. To some extent you have to resign yourself to letting people lie about you. The problem with this is, the most successful people in an industry tend to have some of the most valuable insights about it. So you lose a lot when they are silenced. And also, if they keep those insights to themselves, it makes the powerful more powerful. It means useful information remains amongst insiders, like me, for example."""
  - fairity 3y ago
    Thanks for sharing, below is a quote from the same post. > Thirteen years later, that's my default plan. There’s just too much downside for me to get distracted with others’ opinions of my opinions. [1] It's not that I'm afraid of expressing my opinions. I just think, "Why bother?" Is it really true that she's not afraid though? It's a perfectly natural reaction to be afraid of the internet mob shouting you down -- the first time I went through this, I was extremely distraught. The reason I ask is bc we should be honest about the problem, so that we can solve it. Perhaps the solution is to teach the good people around us how to have thicker skin, so they don't have as strong of an emotional reaction to internet backlash. But, detaching yourself from ego is actually a really hard skill to teach & learn. It almost seems like a hopeless endeavor when you're talking about creative people who are already very busy.
deanCommie 3y ago
I wonder how much wisdom has been lost bc people don't ask follow-up questions to statements like this? Questions like "What did she actually say?" and "What was the reaction?" Luckily both have been answered in the comments and it's a bit more clear that not everything someone feels is worth sharing is automatically "wisdom".

burnished 3y ago

Doesn't the phrase 'pearls before swine' refer basically to this situation? Basically I don't think it's something you can do in the presence of a thing like twitter because of the participants whose goal isn't communication. Which is fine. The wisdom isn't lost, its just not as widely available.

mandmandam 3y ago
> Which is fine. The wisdom isn't lost, its just not as widely available. It's not fine though. Our political and economic spheres have been run by the swine for too long, and the planet's back is breaking. The second order effects of only giving the brash and thick-hided a voice in society are everywhere, causing permanent harms. Let's start making space for the wise and sensitive types, and make pearls abundant.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- afarrell 3y ago
  Libraries are a solution to this problem. Print the wisdom on thinly-sliced trees and place it in a location which requires someone to get out of the house and engage with their community.
- burnished 3y ago
  Sure, I'd laude you for pursuing that mission. You seem to be implying that this is a recent phenomenon of some kind though and I don't think it is. Just something to keep in mind! Not intended in the spirit of a damning critique or reason not to try.
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    > You seem to be implying that this is a recent phenomenon of some kind though Pretty recent, in the scheme of things - only the last few thousand years or so. I do think we can turn it around; I mean, we fuckin better.

balls187 3y ago

I doubt the violent reaction was based on anything other than gender.

bell-cot 3y ago
Yeah, very probably. But there's no chance of truth nor justice once the Internet Hate Machine really gets going.

Jun8 3y ago

For the curious, I think this is what pg is referring to: https://valleywag.gawker.com/paul-graham-says-women-havent-been-hacking-for-the-pa-1490581236 https://valleywag.gawker.com/paul-graham-says-women-havent-b... (so glad that “news site” is dead BTW). He made some Summers-like foray on female founder’s abilities, I remember it was a big deal at the time, now I don’t know if many people remember it (note to self about any moral battle du jour that seem so important). I have no data to back this up but always thought that this brouhaha was a big reason pg moved on from YC, not that he was ousted or anything, but didn’t want to deal with this crowd. Jessica Livingstone got embroiled, too. Here’s a more recent, gossipy take: https://news.yahoo.com/y-combinator-entrepreneurs-were-kicked-021650112.html https://news.yahoo.com/y-combinator-entrepreneurs-were-kicke...

chris_wot 3y ago
I seem to recall it was “The Information” that was the chief instigator.
- Jun8 3y ago
  You’re right, Valley Wag summarized the interview done by The Information: https://www.theinformation.com/articles/yc-s-paul-graham-the-complete-interview https://www.theinformation.com/articles/yc-s-paul-graham-the...
MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
Just when you think your opinion on journalists cannot possibly go any lower, they are going the extra mile.
bushwald 3y ago
Wow. Now I really don't understand the cult-like reverence for PG on here. That he begins his post about Livingstone by referring to her as the "mom" of YC corroborates the Gawker piece in my mind.
- detaro 3y ago
  "cult-like reverence"? People love making fun of PG here

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tshaddox 3y ago

I’m not familiar with this incident, and if it was truly violent then I agree that it’s tragic and likely to result in a loss of valuable voices. But all too often people express opinions publicly, then receive criticism of those opinions publicly, and conclude “wow, these days you can’t even express opinions any more.” This is especially common with wealthy and/or powerful people who are not accustomed to receiving criticism from the public.

crashingintoyou 3y ago
Jessica Livingston's own words (https://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/the-sound-of-silence https://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/the-sound-of-silence) """Not surprisingly, the juiciest targets for this sort of willful misinterpretation are organizations and people who are successful. They have power, and power makes them both interesting and envied; I teach founders they all have to be prepared for this as their startups grow. In my blog post, "Subtle Mid-Stage Startup Pitfalls" I said: You can't prevent yourself from being a target. It's an automatic consequence of being successful. So the best you can do is react in the right way when people attack you. To some extent you have to resign yourself to letting people lie about you. The problem with this is, the most successful people in an industry tend to have some of the most valuable insights about it. So you lose a lot when they are silenced. And also, if they keep those insights to themselves, it makes the powerful more powerful. It means useful information remains amongst insiders, like me, for example."""
- fairity 3y ago
  Thanks for sharing, below is a quote from the same post. > Thirteen years later, that's my default plan. There’s just too much downside for me to get distracted with others’ opinions of my opinions. [1] It's not that I'm afraid of expressing my opinions. I just think, "Why bother?" Is it really true that she's not afraid though? It's a perfectly natural reaction to be afraid of the internet mob shouting you down -- the first time I went through this, I was extremely distraught. The reason I ask is bc we should be honest about the problem, so that we can solve it. Perhaps the solution is to teach the good people around us how to have thicker skin, so they don't have as strong of an emotional reaction to internet backlash. But, detaching yourself from ego is actually a really hard skill to teach & learn. It almost seems like a hopeless endeavor when you're talking about creative people who are already very busy.

deanCommie 3y ago

I wonder how much wisdom has been lost bc people don't ask follow-up questions to statements like this? Questions like "What did she actually say?" and "What was the reaction?" Luckily both have been answered in the comments and it's a bit more clear that not everything someone feels is worth sharing is automatically "wisdom".