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You think Boeing didn't already have all those processes and shops in place? If it still costed them tens of thousands to produce a trash can, I'd argue they'r

You think Boeing didn't already have all those processes and shops in place? If it still costed them tens of thousands to produce a trash can, I'd argue they're doing their job really inefficiently. Not really what you'd call an economy of scale.

giantrobot 3y ago
> You think Boeing didn't already have all those processes and shops in place? For parts likely not manufactured in decades? No. They likely didn't have current paperwork for that. Boeing wasn't sitting around just waiting to replace some trash cans just in case the Pentagon was going to order some. Trash cans for a plane whose commercial counterpart has been out of service for decades is literally not an economy of scale. An order for replacement trash cans at this point is a specialty boutique order.
themaninthedark 3y ago
You are not certifying a process. You are certifying a process for that part. If the process changes, you have to go back and re-certify. If the technology changes, you have to go back and re-certify. In some places, if you change the machine the part is run on, you have to go back and re-certify. So if you take a part that was stick welded, move it to a tig welder and then move it to an automated spot welder, you have to certify 3 times. Not to mention, a tig weld may behave differently under stress than a stick weld so make sure that you do a part analysis too! Last but not least, the regulations have changed from the last time this aircraft was produced. Are your parts governed by the new regulations or the old? This is what got Boeing in so much trouble with the MAX, they didn't want to re-certify the aircraft so they kept making changes to the design. Do you think they are getting more or less scrutiny now when they say "It's an old design, everything is cool!" The FAA got beat up, badly, justifiably so over their handling of that. Congress mandated them to regulate more strictly: https://www.reuters.com/article/boeing-737max-congress-idAFL1N2J901G https://www.reuters.com/article/boeing-737max-congress-idAFL... Up-thread, comment was to farm it our to a local machine shop with one guy. Here is the FAA on Counterfeit parts: >Counterfeit Parts: These are unapproved parts manufactured and sold without FAA >approval. You should report them to the FAA as a SUP. There may be obvious, or >not so obvious, visual clues to help you spot these parts. The FAA aggressively >investigates these cases and works closely with the Office of Inspector General >(OIG) and law enforcement officials to ensure proper adjudication. There are >cases of this nature that have resulted in significant civil penalties and/or >jail time for those involved. https://iflyamerica.org/safety_suspected_unapproved_parts.asp https://iflyamerica.org/safety_suspected_unapproved_parts.as... Adding: I have found an older(2022) AMCOM Spares SAR Guidance Document. This will show you what you need to do in order to apply to manufacture parts for American Military Aircraft. https://www.avmc.army.mil/Portals/51/Documents/SAR%20Guidance/AMCOM%20Spares%20SAR%20Guidance_01_September_2022.docx?ver=RGRwjDhTXkhFmH7XVOl9Wg%3D%3D https://www.avmc.army.mil/Portals/51/Documents/SAR%20Guidanc...

giantrobot 3y ago

> You think Boeing didn't already have all those processes and shops in place? For parts likely not manufactured in decades? No. They likely didn't have current paperwork for that. Boeing wasn't sitting around just waiting to replace some trash cans just in case the Pentagon was going to order some. Trash cans for a plane whose commercial counterpart has been out of service for decades is literally not an economy of scale. An order for replacement trash cans at this point is a specialty boutique order.

themaninthedark 3y ago

You are not certifying a process. You are certifying a process for that part. If the process changes, you have to go back and re-certify. If the technology changes, you have to go back and re-certify. In some places, if you change the machine the part is run on, you have to go back and re-certify. So if you take a part that was stick welded, move it to a tig welder and then move it to an automated spot welder, you have to certify 3 times. Not to mention, a tig weld may behave differently under stress than a stick weld so make sure that you do a part analysis too! Last but not least, the regulations have changed from the last time this aircraft was produced. Are your parts governed by the new regulations or the old? This is what got Boeing in so much trouble with the MAX, they didn't want to re-certify the aircraft so they kept making changes to the design. Do you think they are getting more or less scrutiny now when they say "It's an old design, everything is cool!" The FAA got beat up, badly, justifiably so over their handling of that. Congress mandated them to regulate more strictly: https://www.reuters.com/article/boeing-737max-congress-idAFL1N2J901G https://www.reuters.com/article/boeing-737max-congress-idAFL... Up-thread, comment was to farm it our to a local machine shop with one guy. Here is the FAA on Counterfeit parts: >Counterfeit Parts: These are unapproved parts manufactured and sold without FAA >approval. You should report them to the FAA as a SUP. There may be obvious, or >not so obvious, visual clues to help you spot these parts. The FAA aggressively >investigates these cases and works closely with the Office of Inspector General >(OIG) and law enforcement officials to ensure proper adjudication. There are >cases of this nature that have resulted in significant civil penalties and/or >jail time for those involved. https://iflyamerica.org/safety_suspected_unapproved_parts.asp https://iflyamerica.org/safety_suspected_unapproved_parts.as... Adding: I have found an older(2022) AMCOM Spares SAR Guidance Document. This will show you what you need to do in order to apply to manufacture parts for American Military Aircraft. https://www.avmc.army.mil/Portals/51/Documents/SAR%20Guidance/AMCOM%20Spares%20SAR%20Guidance_01_September_2022.docx?ver=RGRwjDhTXkhFmH7XVOl9Wg%3D%3D https://www.avmc.army.mil/Portals/51/Documents/SAR%20Guidanc...