6 ms·

Atari VCS Myst “Demake”

116 points by ecliptik 3y ago

Waterluvian 3y ago
I love this. I’ve been making games as a hobby, but I’m terrible at graphics. I finally found personal success when I went for retro, low res stuff. It’s a lot easier to fake it (but arguably much harder to really nail the aesthetic.)
- Schiendelman 3y ago
  I struggle with the same thing! I have a great core loop but can't make it not look terrible. :)
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    I’m so bummed I missed the golden age of text based games. I can describe things but can’t draw them to save my life.
    - LeoPanthera 3y ago
      For what it's worth, there's a small but very dedicated group of IF fans still. Check out: https://ifdb.org https://ifdb.org https://ifcomp.org https://ifcomp.org
      - elliotpo 3y ago
        thank you for this
    - mysterydip 3y ago
      Still going strong as a niche. Lots of good tools nowadays. Why not give it a go? And coincidentally this book just released. I got the PDF version and am loving it: https://if50.textories.com/#buy https://if50.textories.com/#buy
      - logicprog 3y ago
        > Lots of good tools nowadays. Inform 7 has kinda "won" by popularity, for obscure historical reasons (you can read The Digital Antiquarian's "Teaching the Old Z-Machine New Tricks" series to see what exactly happened to make Inform so dominant), so on a first search that's the tool you're most likely to find, but I just want to plug TADS 3 for anyone interested in interactive fiction development. Inform is interesting, especially in concept, but it has a huge amount of very serious drawbacks due to its extremely static nature (no dynamic allocation, no creating lists on the fly and appending to them, etc), lack of general programming constructs, and "natural language" syntax, whereas TADS 3 is actually a very excellent little language that's got all the modern amenities and is just a joy to write games in, and has a simply shockingly powerful standard library / world model. TADS 3 feels like Ruby/Smalltalk had a baby with C and it specialized in IF. Also, try the adv3Lite library instead of the default standard library — the name is a bit of a misnomer, as it's just as complete as the default one, it just has superior design sensibilities and a huge host of new features stolen from Inform. Adv3Lite adds basically everything thay was good about Inform 7 to TADS 3.
        anthk 3y ago
        I prefer Inform6, a dumb as hell OOP language but you can go to "low level" stuff in order to implement things. Also, it has Spanish support thru infsp6, which is my native language.
        logicprog 3y ago
        Nice! Yeah Inform 6 is still solid. TADS 3 is more like it than 7.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      besides interactive fiction there are also many MUDs still going. https://mudlistings.com/ https://mudlistings.com/ has a section, which MUDs are looking for builders and writers
    - logicprog 3y ago
      Like the other reply to your post said, there is a small but very dedicated, active and most of all supportive interactive fiction community still regularly making very well-made and interesting literary works, as well as producing new development tools, and we would love to have you! There's even a yearly competition for short interactive fiction that you can submit to if you don't want your work to go completely unnoticed. I really can't stress enough how supportive and engaged and surprisingly active this community is — you wouldn't think it possible for a genre that has been officially dead for so many years, but somehow the community has kept going, producing works of really substantial worth and inventiveness that are genuinely sometimes even better than what was produced when the genre was officially alive. Many of them very long and complex, too. I highly recommend you check out IFDB, check the tags for parser (I find parser IF in the general tradition of Infocom much more interesting and impressive than hypertext, since there's am actual world model and stuff there) and "long-form." You'll see some impressive stuff. You should also check out https://intfiction.org https://intfiction.org, it's a very friendly community forum for discussing interactive fiction reviews, design, and development, and it's shockingly active — I've posted there a few times and always got several replies, and there's always people talking there.
- le-mark 3y ago
  It is sooo depressing to show off a game you put your heart into only to hear “the graphics suck”. It turned me off from the hobby a long time ago.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    You just reminded me of a comment I saw a dev make when someone posted the same criticism: “Or your sense of imagination has atrophied.” Maybe a bit pithy, maybe a bit sour, but what really resonated with me was the idea: graphics can rob us of that role in the production. I’m sure I’m about to say what’s obvious to many but: I just realized that I’ve lost a sensation that was dear to me as a kid: taking the handful of pixels and the box art and building the graphics in my mind.
- logicprog 3y ago
  I'm in the same boat, being in love with making games but really quite terrible at graphics (and with no real enjoyment for learning either, sadly). I tried pixel art several times, but ended up solving my dilemma with parser interactive fiction instead. I lucked out in that a) I'm an excellent writer and b) I'm obsessed with puzzle-y, simulationist games with a lot of exploration and atmosphere, so parser IF is perfect for me.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    If I wanted to write an IF game but needed a very detailed game state (inventory, levelling, stats, etc.) is there a direction you might point me in for an engine or an engine design? I looked at the popular IF engines and they all felt very focused on story and branches and not really on if you need game systems and a lot of state.
    - logicprog 3y ago
      > I looked at the popular IF engines and they all felt very focused on story and branches and not really on if you need game systems and a lot of state. If you need complex game states and world models and object simulations and relational stuff, then you definitely want to do parser based interactive fiction instead of hypertext interactive fiction, the latter of which is what it sounds like you looked at. Hypertext interactive fiction isn't really so much a game as a choose your own adventure approach to traditional fiction, whereas parser-based interactive fiction is a lot like a text-based immersive sim like deus ex or system shock — the two major engines have very powerful and in-depth relational world models that can do a lot of impressive things such as simulating the expansion of a gas and its attenuation through rooms or fluid simulation or tying arbitrary things together with ropes. Both of them automatically come with very complete and powerful systems for doing all the stuff you listed by default. The two parser IF systems I'm talking about are Inform 7 and TADS 3. I would personally recommend the latter if you already know how to program, though. Inform is interesting, especially in concept, but it has a huge amount of very serious drawbacks due to its extremely static nature (no dynamic allocation, no creating lists on the fly and appending to them, etc), lack of general programming constructs, and "natural language" syntax, whereas TADS 3 is actually a very excellent little language that's got all the modern amenities and is just a joy to write games in, and has a simply shockingly powerful standard library / world model, a far more deep and extensive one than Inform has even with extensions. It often feel a like everything I could possibly want to model in TADS 3 has either already been done, or is a trivial combination of things. Additionally, TADS 3's documentation is so much better than Inform's I can't even begin to describe it. TADS 3 feels like Ruby/Smalltalk had a baby with C and it specialized in IF. Also, try the adv3Lite library instead of the default standard library — the name is a bit of a misnomer, as it's just as complete as the default one, it just has superior design sensibilities and a huge host of new features stolen from Inform. Adv3Lite adds basically everything thay was good about Inform 7 to TADS 3. Don't let the fact that Inform 7 seems more active or gets more fanfare deter you from TADS. There's a very active little community of tads users that are very eager to help and will answer almost any question you have immediately, and the documentation is so astoundingly excellent I've basically never felt the need for a search engine because everything I want is in one of the three 600 page manuals on different aspects of the language and standard library or in the standard library reference manual. also although tads three the language hasn't been updated or changed since 2012 the compiler is updated and improved regularly.
avidphantasm 3y ago
Maybe I was too young to "get" Atari games, which I played on a hand-me-down Colecovision with the 2600 emulator/adapter ca. 1986, but I always thought Atari games were kinda lousy. The system was just too primitive (compared to Colecovision let alone C64 and NES) to enable good enough graphics and sound to set my imagination free and really make me want to play the games again and again. To this day, I have the most desire to play SNES and some NES games, but feel no desire to revisit Atari games. This isn't to knock those that do, I just feel like NES and especially SNES and Genesis games really hit a sweet spot in terms of interesting enough graphics and sound without being burdened by 3D or photorealism (which I generally don't want in games, not that I'm much of a gamer). Atari's graphics and sound were just too abstract.
- MegaDeKay 3y ago
  You might have felt differently if you hadn't started out with a Colecovision, the games for which were miles ahead of the VCS. When the 2600 was about the only thing going, people didn't have much to compare against until the Intellivision came along. We just had Atari and we liked it.
  - Johnny555 3y ago
    Just listening to the sounds from this Myst remake brought back some core memories of playing our neighbor's state of the art Atari 2600, and it was a fun way to spend a cold winter afternoon. I can definitely believe that those that didn't grow up with it would find the graphics (and sound) lacking, but if it was your first home video game console, it was amazing.
    - LaLaLand122 3y ago
      The 2600 was also my first game console. I played it a lot, even after the Spectrum 128K arrived home. But, as much fun as I had with it, I have a similar issue with it now: I would happily play a SNES game now, but I have zero interest in playing an Atari 2600 game. I mean, I would play Qbert, but the graphics/sound would put me off enough to try the Commodore 64 version instead, and I have never touched a C64. In fact, I have the same problem with the NES. For me the SNES is exactly the sweet spot.
sedatk 3y ago
This would have been the best thing Atari had if it came out in the 80’s. Computer magazines would have gone crazy. Very nice work.
mock-possum 3y ago
Man those screenshots are rough - recognizable in some cases because I played the shit out of Myst when I was a kid, but unintelligible I’m guessing for those with no basis for comparison.

116 points by ecliptik 3y ago

I love this. I’ve been making games as a hobby, but I’m terrible at graphics. I finally found personal success when I went for retro, low res stuff. It’s a lot easier to fake it (but arguably much harder to really nail the aesthetic.)

Schiendelman 3y ago
I struggle with the same thing! I have a great core loop but can't make it not look terrible. :)
- lockhouse 3y ago
  I’m so bummed I missed the golden age of text based games. I can describe things but can’t draw them to save my life.
  - LeoPanthera 3y ago
    For what it's worth, there's a small but very dedicated group of IF fans still. Check out: https://ifdb.org https://ifdb.org https://ifcomp.org https://ifcomp.org
    - elliotpo 3y ago
      thank you for this
  - mysterydip 3y ago
    Still going strong as a niche. Lots of good tools nowadays. Why not give it a go? And coincidentally this book just released. I got the PDF version and am loving it: https://if50.textories.com/#buy https://if50.textories.com/#buy
    - logicprog 3y ago
      > Lots of good tools nowadays. Inform 7 has kinda "won" by popularity, for obscure historical reasons (you can read The Digital Antiquarian's "Teaching the Old Z-Machine New Tricks" series to see what exactly happened to make Inform so dominant), so on a first search that's the tool you're most likely to find, but I just want to plug TADS 3 for anyone interested in interactive fiction development. Inform is interesting, especially in concept, but it has a huge amount of very serious drawbacks due to its extremely static nature (no dynamic allocation, no creating lists on the fly and appending to them, etc), lack of general programming constructs, and "natural language" syntax, whereas TADS 3 is actually a very excellent little language that's got all the modern amenities and is just a joy to write games in, and has a simply shockingly powerful standard library / world model. TADS 3 feels like Ruby/Smalltalk had a baby with C and it specialized in IF. Also, try the adv3Lite library instead of the default standard library — the name is a bit of a misnomer, as it's just as complete as the default one, it just has superior design sensibilities and a huge host of new features stolen from Inform. Adv3Lite adds basically everything thay was good about Inform 7 to TADS 3.
      - anthk 3y ago
        I prefer Inform6, a dumb as hell OOP language but you can go to "low level" stuff in order to implement things. Also, it has Spanish support thru infsp6, which is my native language.
        logicprog 3y ago
        Nice! Yeah Inform 6 is still solid. TADS 3 is more like it than 7.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    besides interactive fiction there are also many MUDs still going. https://mudlistings.com/ https://mudlistings.com/ has a section, which MUDs are looking for builders and writers
  - logicprog 3y ago
    Like the other reply to your post said, there is a small but very dedicated, active and most of all supportive interactive fiction community still regularly making very well-made and interesting literary works, as well as producing new development tools, and we would love to have you! There's even a yearly competition for short interactive fiction that you can submit to if you don't want your work to go completely unnoticed. I really can't stress enough how supportive and engaged and surprisingly active this community is — you wouldn't think it possible for a genre that has been officially dead for so many years, but somehow the community has kept going, producing works of really substantial worth and inventiveness that are genuinely sometimes even better than what was produced when the genre was officially alive. Many of them very long and complex, too. I highly recommend you check out IFDB, check the tags for parser (I find parser IF in the general tradition of Infocom much more interesting and impressive than hypertext, since there's am actual world model and stuff there) and "long-form." You'll see some impressive stuff. You should also check out https://intfiction.org https://intfiction.org, it's a very friendly community forum for discussing interactive fiction reviews, design, and development, and it's shockingly active — I've posted there a few times and always got several replies, and there's always people talking there.
le-mark 3y ago
It is sooo depressing to show off a game you put your heart into only to hear “the graphics suck”. It turned me off from the hobby a long time ago.
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  You just reminded me of a comment I saw a dev make when someone posted the same criticism: “Or your sense of imagination has atrophied.” Maybe a bit pithy, maybe a bit sour, but what really resonated with me was the idea: graphics can rob us of that role in the production. I’m sure I’m about to say what’s obvious to many but: I just realized that I’ve lost a sensation that was dear to me as a kid: taking the handful of pixels and the box art and building the graphics in my mind.
logicprog 3y ago
I'm in the same boat, being in love with making games but really quite terrible at graphics (and with no real enjoyment for learning either, sadly). I tried pixel art several times, but ended up solving my dilemma with parser interactive fiction instead. I lucked out in that a) I'm an excellent writer and b) I'm obsessed with puzzle-y, simulationist games with a lot of exploration and atmosphere, so parser IF is perfect for me.
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  If I wanted to write an IF game but needed a very detailed game state (inventory, levelling, stats, etc.) is there a direction you might point me in for an engine or an engine design? I looked at the popular IF engines and they all felt very focused on story and branches and not really on if you need game systems and a lot of state.
  - logicprog 3y ago
    > I looked at the popular IF engines and they all felt very focused on story and branches and not really on if you need game systems and a lot of state. If you need complex game states and world models and object simulations and relational stuff, then you definitely want to do parser based interactive fiction instead of hypertext interactive fiction, the latter of which is what it sounds like you looked at. Hypertext interactive fiction isn't really so much a game as a choose your own adventure approach to traditional fiction, whereas parser-based interactive fiction is a lot like a text-based immersive sim like deus ex or system shock — the two major engines have very powerful and in-depth relational world models that can do a lot of impressive things such as simulating the expansion of a gas and its attenuation through rooms or fluid simulation or tying arbitrary things together with ropes. Both of them automatically come with very complete and powerful systems for doing all the stuff you listed by default. The two parser IF systems I'm talking about are Inform 7 and TADS 3. I would personally recommend the latter if you already know how to program, though. Inform is interesting, especially in concept, but it has a huge amount of very serious drawbacks due to its extremely static nature (no dynamic allocation, no creating lists on the fly and appending to them, etc), lack of general programming constructs, and "natural language" syntax, whereas TADS 3 is actually a very excellent little language that's got all the modern amenities and is just a joy to write games in, and has a simply shockingly powerful standard library / world model, a far more deep and extensive one than Inform has even with extensions. It often feel a like everything I could possibly want to model in TADS 3 has either already been done, or is a trivial combination of things. Additionally, TADS 3's documentation is so much better than Inform's I can't even begin to describe it. TADS 3 feels like Ruby/Smalltalk had a baby with C and it specialized in IF. Also, try the adv3Lite library instead of the default standard library — the name is a bit of a misnomer, as it's just as complete as the default one, it just has superior design sensibilities and a huge host of new features stolen from Inform. Adv3Lite adds basically everything thay was good about Inform 7 to TADS 3. Don't let the fact that Inform 7 seems more active or gets more fanfare deter you from TADS. There's a very active little community of tads users that are very eager to help and will answer almost any question you have immediately, and the documentation is so astoundingly excellent I've basically never felt the need for a search engine because everything I want is in one of the three 600 page manuals on different aspects of the language and standard library or in the standard library reference manual. also although tads three the language hasn't been updated or changed since 2012 the compiler is updated and improved regularly.

avidphantasm 3y ago

Maybe I was too young to "get" Atari games, which I played on a hand-me-down Colecovision with the 2600 emulator/adapter ca. 1986, but I always thought Atari games were kinda lousy. The system was just too primitive (compared to Colecovision let alone C64 and NES) to enable good enough graphics and sound to set my imagination free and really make me want to play the games again and again. To this day, I have the most desire to play SNES and some NES games, but feel no desire to revisit Atari games. This isn't to knock those that do, I just feel like NES and especially SNES and Genesis games really hit a sweet spot in terms of interesting enough graphics and sound without being burdened by 3D or photorealism (which I generally don't want in games, not that I'm much of a gamer). Atari's graphics and sound were just too abstract.

MegaDeKay 3y ago
You might have felt differently if you hadn't started out with a Colecovision, the games for which were miles ahead of the VCS. When the 2600 was about the only thing going, people didn't have much to compare against until the Intellivision came along. We just had Atari and we liked it.
- Johnny555 3y ago
  Just listening to the sounds from this Myst remake brought back some core memories of playing our neighbor's state of the art Atari 2600, and it was a fun way to spend a cold winter afternoon. I can definitely believe that those that didn't grow up with it would find the graphics (and sound) lacking, but if it was your first home video game console, it was amazing.
  - LaLaLand122 3y ago
    The 2600 was also my first game console. I played it a lot, even after the Spectrum 128K arrived home. But, as much fun as I had with it, I have a similar issue with it now: I would happily play a SNES game now, but I have zero interest in playing an Atari 2600 game. I mean, I would play Qbert, but the graphics/sound would put me off enough to try the Commodore 64 version instead, and I have never touched a C64. In fact, I have the same problem with the NES. For me the SNES is exactly the sweet spot.

sedatk 3y ago

This would have been the best thing Atari had if it came out in the 80’s. Computer magazines would have gone crazy. Very nice work.

mock-possum 3y ago

Man those screenshots are rough - recognizable in some cases because I played the shit out of Myst when I was a kid, but unintelligible I’m guessing for those with no basis for comparison.