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They didn't know it could lie? But also, pretty sure Doctors and Lawyers are among the least trusted/highest corruption professions. All that schooling is a ba

They didn't know it could lie? But also, pretty sure Doctors and Lawyers are among the least trusted/highest corruption professions. All that schooling is a barrier to entry to keep outsiders away, it doesnt guarantee competence. Basically once you get in, graduation rates are close to 100%.

sarchertech 3y ago
You’re very wrong about the perception of doctors. According to polls, doctors are the 2nd most trusted profession. https://news.gallup.com/poll/388649/military-brass-judges-among-professions-new-image-lows.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/388649/military-brass-judges-am... My wife runs the resident eduction for her division and they are very aware of the dangers of sending an incompetent doctor out into the world to practice. They’ll force them through extra training and make them repeat residency if they have to. Residents also drop out of their programs and move into other ones. It’s rare for them to drop out completely because they’d still be on the hook for $200k+ in loans. But medicine is a big field and it’s rare that someone who made it into and through med school to not be able to find something they are competent and capable at. Maybe you’re not great with patients, but you can look through a microscope all day as a pathologist etc… Incompetent and corrupt doctors still make it through the process of course, but far far fewer than in our profession and just about any other profession I can think of. As for lawyers: Law schools have around a 77% graduation rate nation wide. And about 90% of law school graduates eventually pass the bar exam. So we’re look at somewhere around 70% of people making it through after a pretty selective filter to begin with.
- echelon 3y ago
  > According to polls, doctors are the 2nd most trusted profession. n=1 anecdote here: When I was in research track biochem and bumped into premed students, nearly the entire population of premed didn't seem to care about the science behind what they were learning. They formed a very different social clique. The "top students" in that set were sharing previous years' organic chemistry exams and none of them would read papers or get involved in research. They were entirely disinterested in the science. In my interactions with general practitioners, I like to talk about medicines' method of actions, pharmacology, the actual biochemistry behind diseases. Most of them seem to have no clue or retention of this information. I'm not trying to challenge them, either -- I'm generally curious to learn. That's not to say all doctors are like that. A lot of the surgeons and specialists I know are walking tomes of information.
  - appletrotter 3y ago
    I don’t really know, but it might be okay for them to not focus on that knowledge.
    - echelon 3y ago
      Seems like we could train a lot of people for a lot cheaper if that was the case, though.
      - sarchertech 3y ago
        That’s essentially what Physicians Assistants and Nurse Practitioners are.
  - hunter2_ 3y ago
    This seems analogous to a programmer who knows all the sort functions offered by their language of choice and when to use each, but has never learned how to write their own sort algorithm, and therefore can't hold a conversation about doing so. Plenty of employers and customers would be thrilled with such a programmer, if the job at hand is just to ensure that the data gets properly sorted.
  - gautamdivgi 3y ago
    I think a lot of your general practitioners are bound to follow protocol set forth by various medical organizations. So in that sense a lot of diving into research won’t help them. They need to understand and diagnose without having to worry about every little research paper. A lot of research papers aren’t truth - they are peer reviewed opinions. Once you get to medical research groups that formulate those protocols, that’s where research becomes important.
    - hospitalJail 3y ago
      >I think a lot of your general practitioners are bound to follow protocol set forth by various medical organizations. So in that sense a lot of diving into research won’t help them. They need to understand and diagnose without having to worry about every little research paper. A lot of research papers aren’t truth - they are peer reviewed opinions. Isnt this even more necessary for them to learn the fundementals? Especially if Physicians claim that they are both Art and Science, which is why we can't merely use science for diagnosis and treatment.
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  >You’re very wrong about the perception of doctors. According to polls, doctors are the 2nd most trusted profession. https://news.gallup.com/poll/388649/military-brass-judges-am https://news.gallup.com/poll/388649/military-brass-judges-am... https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders?cycle=a https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders?cy... They are the 4th largest briber in the US.
  - sarchertech 3y ago
    Fewer than 20% of physicians belong to the AMA, so that’s just an absurd statement. By that logic all old people are the 15th largest bribers.
    - pixl97 3y ago
      I mean as much as politicians go after old peoples votes, you might be right.
  - mynameisash 3y ago
    Far be it from me to defend our system of lobbying the government, but there's a big difference between bribery and federal lobbying. Your phrasing poisons the well.
    - hospitalJail 3y ago
      No. Finding a difference between bribery and federal lobbying with money, is the same outcome. Money goes from person who wants, to person with power who receives. Everything else is theatre.
      - sarchertech 3y ago
        In the case of lobbying you can go look on a website and see who took money from whom when you’re choosing who to vote for. The money that comes from lobbying is also limited and pays for reelection, the candidate doesn’t get to use it for personal expenses. There are clearly problems with the system, but yelling no! it’s exactly the same as taking bribes isn’t helpful.

sarchertech 3y ago

You’re very wrong about the perception of doctors. According to polls, doctors are the 2nd most trusted profession. https://news.gallup.com/poll/388649/military-brass-judges-among-professions-new-image-lows.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/388649/military-brass-judges-am... My wife runs the resident eduction for her division and they are very aware of the dangers of sending an incompetent doctor out into the world to practice. They’ll force them through extra training and make them repeat residency if they have to. Residents also drop out of their programs and move into other ones. It’s rare for them to drop out completely because they’d still be on the hook for $200k+ in loans. But medicine is a big field and it’s rare that someone who made it into and through med school to not be able to find something they are competent and capable at. Maybe you’re not great with patients, but you can look through a microscope all day as a pathologist etc… Incompetent and corrupt doctors still make it through the process of course, but far far fewer than in our profession and just about any other profession I can think of. As for lawyers: Law schools have around a 77% graduation rate nation wide. And about 90% of law school graduates eventually pass the bar exam. So we’re look at somewhere around 70% of people making it through after a pretty selective filter to begin with.

echelon 3y ago
> According to polls, doctors are the 2nd most trusted profession. n=1 anecdote here: When I was in research track biochem and bumped into premed students, nearly the entire population of premed didn't seem to care about the science behind what they were learning. They formed a very different social clique. The "top students" in that set were sharing previous years' organic chemistry exams and none of them would read papers or get involved in research. They were entirely disinterested in the science. In my interactions with general practitioners, I like to talk about medicines' method of actions, pharmacology, the actual biochemistry behind diseases. Most of them seem to have no clue or retention of this information. I'm not trying to challenge them, either -- I'm generally curious to learn. That's not to say all doctors are like that. A lot of the surgeons and specialists I know are walking tomes of information.
- appletrotter 3y ago
  I don’t really know, but it might be okay for them to not focus on that knowledge.
  - echelon 3y ago
    Seems like we could train a lot of people for a lot cheaper if that was the case, though.
    - sarchertech 3y ago
      That’s essentially what Physicians Assistants and Nurse Practitioners are.
- hunter2_ 3y ago
  This seems analogous to a programmer who knows all the sort functions offered by their language of choice and when to use each, but has never learned how to write their own sort algorithm, and therefore can't hold a conversation about doing so. Plenty of employers and customers would be thrilled with such a programmer, if the job at hand is just to ensure that the data gets properly sorted.
- gautamdivgi 3y ago
  I think a lot of your general practitioners are bound to follow protocol set forth by various medical organizations. So in that sense a lot of diving into research won’t help them. They need to understand and diagnose without having to worry about every little research paper. A lot of research papers aren’t truth - they are peer reviewed opinions. Once you get to medical research groups that formulate those protocols, that’s where research becomes important.
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    >I think a lot of your general practitioners are bound to follow protocol set forth by various medical organizations. So in that sense a lot of diving into research won’t help them. They need to understand and diagnose without having to worry about every little research paper. A lot of research papers aren’t truth - they are peer reviewed opinions. Isnt this even more necessary for them to learn the fundementals? Especially if Physicians claim that they are both Art and Science, which is why we can't merely use science for diagnosis and treatment.
hospitalJail 3y ago
>You’re very wrong about the perception of doctors. According to polls, doctors are the 2nd most trusted profession. https://news.gallup.com/poll/388649/military-brass-judges-am https://news.gallup.com/poll/388649/military-brass-judges-am... https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders?cycle=a https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders?cy... They are the 4th largest briber in the US.
- sarchertech 3y ago
  Fewer than 20% of physicians belong to the AMA, so that’s just an absurd statement. By that logic all old people are the 15th largest bribers.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    I mean as much as politicians go after old peoples votes, you might be right.
- mynameisash 3y ago
  Far be it from me to defend our system of lobbying the government, but there's a big difference between bribery and federal lobbying. Your phrasing poisons the well.
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    No. Finding a difference between bribery and federal lobbying with money, is the same outcome. Money goes from person who wants, to person with power who receives. Everything else is theatre.
    - sarchertech 3y ago
      In the case of lobbying you can go look on a website and see who took money from whom when you’re choosing who to vote for. The money that comes from lobbying is also limited and pays for reelection, the candidate doesn’t get to use it for personal expenses. There are clearly problems with the system, but yelling no! it’s exactly the same as taking bribes isn’t helpful.