7 ms·

I think a lot of that could be brought back to something closer to resembling immediacy if you go and take the time to remove all the stuff they introduced alon

I think a lot of that could be brought back to something closer to resembling immediacy if you go and take the time to remove all the stuff they introduced along with vista (The fadein/fadeout animations especially)

toyg 3y ago
I think you mean "with XP". So bloated, with all that bevelling and shadows and DRM...
- blarghyblarg 3y ago
  Windows 2000 was peak Windows, minus security. Security is miles and miles better today. Nothing will change my mind about this, ever. It's been downhill since then.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Does Windows 2000 handle native Bluetooth better? What about WiFi SSID management? Does it ship with good IPv6 support?
    - blarghyblarg 3y ago
      no, no, and no. Lets see if we can petition Microsoft to add them, and then we'll see if Win2000 still runs decently fast on a P4 with 4gb of ram. My guess is: yes, it will. Somehow, in the past 15 years, "progress" seems to include "software keeps getting noticeably worse, but anyone pointing this out has to be shot down because progress."
      - vel0city 3y ago
        Ah, there's another question, I'm running 32GB of RAM currently on this machine and 64GB at home. How well does Windows 2000 support >4GB RAM or SMP? Does it come with a good hypervisor? I do like running a lot of VMs in Hyper-V as well. Sure sounds like there's a ton of gaps in things I really want out of my operating system on Windows 2000...
        electroly 3y ago
        I think you're right in general but I'll note that Windows 2000 does support PAE (very limited >4GB support on 32-bit) and SMP.
        blarghyblarg 3y ago
        Sure does. Does the switch to 64 bit slow things down enough to explain what happened between Windows 2000 and XP? Does the operating system have to support virtual machines? Seems easy enough to install vmware then run operating systems inside it for most use cases. I mean, you can keep 'what if'ing me here, but, is it really worth having all the features that you, clearly as a power user or professional, use installed on every computer everywhere? No. No it really doesn't. It's bloat.
        vel0city 3y ago
        > Seems easy enough to install vmware then run operating systems inside it for most use cases. That's a way different experience than running Hyper-V. > is it really worth having all the features that you, clearly as a power user or professional, use installed on every computer everywhere? No. No it really doesn't. It's bloat. I also didn't realize that managing WiFi networks or using display scaling are things only power users and professionals would want on their machines. I guess supporting Bluetooth natively in the OS and a modern sound stack is just bloat for most people.
        blarghyblarg 3y ago
        so, I can't reply to your latest message because it's too far down but... Let me just hop on my wifi and browse the web. Lets do it on a computer from 1999. 2000. 2001. 2002. 2003. 2004. 2005. 2006. 2007. 2008... etc, etc. Why is it that every couple years from 2012 onwards, doing the same thing keeps taking longer, even with new hardware, without the same revolutions in quality and experience that came with that new software previously?
        vel0city 3y ago
        Your 1999 computer supports WPA-2 out of the box? TLS 1.3? > doing the same thing keeps taking longer But I'm not doing the same things anymore. I'm doing a lot more. Things that aren't supported in that 1999 OS at all.
      - Tanoc 3y ago
        There's been a problem of lateral rather than forward progress in nearly all industries since the early 2000s. Lateral progress being a different way to do the same exact thing (a doorknob versus a lever latch for example), and forward progress being a new way to do a similar thing but in a much more efficient and modular way. It's been bothering me for some time ever since I noticed it with the advent of IoT "smart" devices that have the same features as traditional appliances for twice the cost and technical debt. My washing machine still washes clothes and turns itself off, but now I need to set the wash type using my phone because lateral progress dictates a physical interface on the device itself is obsolete.
- Tostino 3y ago
  I used windows 2000 for many, many years. Pretty sure until 7 came out.

toyg 3y ago

I think you mean "with XP". So bloated, with all that bevelling and shadows and DRM...

blarghyblarg 3y ago
Windows 2000 was peak Windows, minus security. Security is miles and miles better today. Nothing will change my mind about this, ever. It's been downhill since then.
- vel0city 3y ago
  Does Windows 2000 handle native Bluetooth better? What about WiFi SSID management? Does it ship with good IPv6 support?
  - blarghyblarg 3y ago
    no, no, and no. Lets see if we can petition Microsoft to add them, and then we'll see if Win2000 still runs decently fast on a P4 with 4gb of ram. My guess is: yes, it will. Somehow, in the past 15 years, "progress" seems to include "software keeps getting noticeably worse, but anyone pointing this out has to be shot down because progress."
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Ah, there's another question, I'm running 32GB of RAM currently on this machine and 64GB at home. How well does Windows 2000 support >4GB RAM or SMP? Does it come with a good hypervisor? I do like running a lot of VMs in Hyper-V as well. Sure sounds like there's a ton of gaps in things I really want out of my operating system on Windows 2000...
      - electroly 3y ago
        I think you're right in general but I'll note that Windows 2000 does support PAE (very limited >4GB support on 32-bit) and SMP.
      - blarghyblarg 3y ago
        Sure does. Does the switch to 64 bit slow things down enough to explain what happened between Windows 2000 and XP? Does the operating system have to support virtual machines? Seems easy enough to install vmware then run operating systems inside it for most use cases. I mean, you can keep 'what if'ing me here, but, is it really worth having all the features that you, clearly as a power user or professional, use installed on every computer everywhere? No. No it really doesn't. It's bloat.
        vel0city 3y ago
        > Seems easy enough to install vmware then run operating systems inside it for most use cases. That's a way different experience than running Hyper-V. > is it really worth having all the features that you, clearly as a power user or professional, use installed on every computer everywhere? No. No it really doesn't. It's bloat. I also didn't realize that managing WiFi networks or using display scaling are things only power users and professionals would want on their machines. I guess supporting Bluetooth natively in the OS and a modern sound stack is just bloat for most people.
      - blarghyblarg 3y ago
        so, I can't reply to your latest message because it's too far down but... Let me just hop on my wifi and browse the web. Lets do it on a computer from 1999. 2000. 2001. 2002. 2003. 2004. 2005. 2006. 2007. 2008... etc, etc. Why is it that every couple years from 2012 onwards, doing the same thing keeps taking longer, even with new hardware, without the same revolutions in quality and experience that came with that new software previously?
        vel0city 3y ago
        Your 1999 computer supports WPA-2 out of the box? TLS 1.3? > doing the same thing keeps taking longer But I'm not doing the same things anymore. I'm doing a lot more. Things that aren't supported in that 1999 OS at all.
    - Tanoc 3y ago
      There's been a problem of lateral rather than forward progress in nearly all industries since the early 2000s. Lateral progress being a different way to do the same exact thing (a doorknob versus a lever latch for example), and forward progress being a new way to do a similar thing but in a much more efficient and modular way. It's been bothering me for some time ever since I noticed it with the advent of IoT "smart" devices that have the same features as traditional appliances for twice the cost and technical debt. My washing machine still washes clothes and turns itself off, but now I need to set the wash type using my phone because lateral progress dictates a physical interface on the device itself is obsolete.
Tostino 3y ago
I used windows 2000 for many, many years. Pretty sure until 7 came out.