4 ms·

Because they know the speed of light and the distance between nodes so they can account for the propagation delays of light due to distance. They're not talkin

Because they know the speed of light and the distance between nodes so they can account for the propagation delays of light due to distance. They're not talking of sub millisecond latency in communications.

bestouff 3y ago
Indeed. It's exactly the same (albeit on a different scale) as NTP synchronization, where you can frequently (ha!) reach a few ms accuracy over a hundred ms latency network.
dphidt 3y ago
Even better, the actual in situ delays are measured and compensated for, and it works independent of the physical connection (and through fiber/copper, switch layers, etc.).
- willis936 3y ago
  And even better: they suggest the use of a single medium for both transmission and receiving (1000BASE-BX10) to minimize asymmetry. https://ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/wikis/SFP https://ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/wikis/SFP
- tgingold 3y ago
  Only over fiber. Copper SFPs are not deterministic enough to precisely synchronize networks.
tgingold 3y ago
No, we don't know the distance between nodes (although we could deduce it). But using timestamps, we can know the round-trip time. See https://www.ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/uploads/2b9d42b664f8e2fd9856c042bd5f6652/WR_Maciej_ALBA.v0.3.pdf https://www.ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/uploads/2b9d42b664... (page 9 and later for the principle). If you want all the details, see https://ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/uploads/6a357829064b9e27a46fbce4cb4398b4/mgr.pdf https://ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/uploads/6a357829064b9e...
- Aune 3y ago
  When synchronizing two nodes A and B, where there is a persistent difference in the travel times A->B and B->A, how do you achieve synchronization when knowing A->B->A or B->A->B?
  - tgingold 3y ago
    For a first approximation, you can assume A->B and B->A travel times are equal. And because optical links are used, the asymmetry is mainly due to the wavelength difference which is known.
  - rcxdude 3y ago
    you can't. You can only assume that they are equal and attempt to make them as equal as possible. (the same issue arises when measuring the speed of light: it's actually not possible to distinguish if the speed of light is different in one direction to another, we only know accurately the average of each direction)
  - ooterness 3y ago
    Delay symmetry is a critical assumption in any two-way time transfer process. White Rabbit goes to extreme lengths to maintain that property. This includes mandating use of cables that share a single optical fiber, with specific wavelength pairs and fiber types so you can calibrate for unavoidable differences in propagation time. More info on their wiki: https://ohwr.org/projects/white-rabbit/wiki/SFP https://ohwr.org/projects/white-rabbit/wiki/SFP
- ramdac 3y ago
  What happens when the roundtrip time isn't consistent?
  - nickez 3y ago
    The roundtrip time is never consistent. Light travels with different speed in fiber depending on the temperature. This is why you calibrate every second.

bestouff 3y ago

Indeed. It's exactly the same (albeit on a different scale) as NTP synchronization, where you can frequently (ha!) reach a few ms accuracy over a hundred ms latency network.

dphidt 3y ago

Even better, the actual in situ delays are measured and compensated for, and it works independent of the physical connection (and through fiber/copper, switch layers, etc.).

willis936 3y ago
And even better: they suggest the use of a single medium for both transmission and receiving (1000BASE-BX10) to minimize asymmetry. https://ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/wikis/SFP https://ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/wikis/SFP
tgingold 3y ago
Only over fiber. Copper SFPs are not deterministic enough to precisely synchronize networks.

tgingold 3y ago

No, we don't know the distance between nodes (although we could deduce it). But using timestamps, we can know the round-trip time. See https://www.ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/uploads/2b9d42b664f8e2fd9856c042bd5f6652/WR_Maciej_ALBA.v0.3.pdf https://www.ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/uploads/2b9d42b664... (page 9 and later for the principle). If you want all the details, see https://ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/uploads/6a357829064b9e27a46fbce4cb4398b4/mgr.pdf https://ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/uploads/6a357829064b9e...

Aune 3y ago
When synchronizing two nodes A and B, where there is a persistent difference in the travel times A->B and B->A, how do you achieve synchronization when knowing A->B->A or B->A->B?
- tgingold 3y ago
  For a first approximation, you can assume A->B and B->A travel times are equal. And because optical links are used, the asymmetry is mainly due to the wavelength difference which is known.
- rcxdude 3y ago
  you can't. You can only assume that they are equal and attempt to make them as equal as possible. (the same issue arises when measuring the speed of light: it's actually not possible to distinguish if the speed of light is different in one direction to another, we only know accurately the average of each direction)
- ooterness 3y ago
  Delay symmetry is a critical assumption in any two-way time transfer process. White Rabbit goes to extreme lengths to maintain that property. This includes mandating use of cables that share a single optical fiber, with specific wavelength pairs and fiber types so you can calibrate for unavoidable differences in propagation time. More info on their wiki: https://ohwr.org/projects/white-rabbit/wiki/SFP https://ohwr.org/projects/white-rabbit/wiki/SFP
ramdac 3y ago
What happens when the roundtrip time isn't consistent?
- nickez 3y ago
  The roundtrip time is never consistent. Light travels with different speed in fiber depending on the temperature. This is why you calibrate every second.