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it would probably be a good idea to teach regular users to activate their brain and think a bit about whether the stuff they use and rely on is really a smart d

it would probably be a good idea to teach regular users to activate their brain and think a bit about whether the stuff they use and rely on is really a smart decision. how many people would knowingly buy a house if it came with an expectation that only one specific megacompany with pretty much nonexistant support could ever do repairs/rework/updates/changes to their house? people are being pushed in this direction with cars, but atleast a large amount of people understand that being locked to only have repairs carried out by the manufacturers own shops is not a good thing. Why do they just turn off their brain when it comes to software?

drw85 3y ago
It's not that easy in many parts of the world. Whatsapp became the standard communication not only with your friends, but also businesses. You talk to your bank manager via whatsapp and your doctor etc. No Whatsapp, no talk.
- wholinator2 3y ago
  That's very interesting, how often do you have text conversations with your doctor?
  - Traubenfuchs 3y ago
    My Argentinian friend in Austria has some top-notch private medical insurance where he sent them pics of his semi deep cut injury on whatsapp, a doctor came to his place one hour later. My dermatologist also offers a whatsapp address where you can talk to her assisstant. My GP communicates via iMessage.
  - phantomathkg 3y ago
    Singapore. Rent a place with all communication and signing contract via Whatsapp with agent.
  - quechimba 3y ago
    I communicate with my dentist on WhatsApp. They send me appointment reminders the night before and I have to confirm.
- redeeman 3y ago
  you are simply 100% unable to get a doctors appointment if you dont have whatsapp? i dont believe it. Well i guess it sucks to need an ambulance when whatsapp has its maintenance window, guess people will just have to die
junon 3y ago
Because in some places Whatsapp is the only way to talk to people. Yes it's a sad status quo. But it IS the status quo nonetheless.
- redeeman 3y ago
  that is definitely false, it may be the most convenient way, but please stop with the complete nonsense. How exactly does it work? can i not call a regular number? can i not go knock on their door? in what way has society changed in those places that completely eliminates the options that existed in 1980? edit: and even if we accept your premise, how did this come to be?
  - rootsudo 3y ago
    No, very much true. Can't do commerce in Indonesia, Singapore or Malaysia w/o Whatsapp. Weichat works in SG, but not in Indonesia or Malaysia. Line for Japan/Thailand. Kakao for S. Korea. You're not texting people via SMS, that is a paid feature and people don't pay for it / that's not considered normal. Delivery/Mail/Pos, also all on whatsapp.
    - redeeman 3y ago
      can you elaborate on "cant do commerce" ? and then dont text people. people say the same shit about facebook, the people I know say the same, that "you cant do anything without it", yet I somehow manage. Would it perhaps sometimes have been easier to go look some shit up on facebook? probably, is it required? well im still alive here to post
      - rootsudo 3y ago
        Shipping confirmations are sent via whatsapp via Tokopedia, Shopee and Lazada. Logging in / MFA is done via Whatsapp. You can have a whatsapp for business (which is a separate app from whatsapp but same thing but has built in ecomm tools) Grab/Gojek/Angas drivers won't text you, but would whatsapp you (cause it's free.) there is a built in dialer/voip into Grab/Gojek, but it sucks and sucks so much it can be useless unless you are ina n 4G LTE locaton and even then - it sucks. I've had countless drivers message me from a grab/gojek hail to confirm location, send live location, etc. Whatsapp is the status quo for communicating with friends, dates, co-workers, contractors, etc. No one wants to pay for an SMS plan - in Philippines it's barely there but most people have moved on due to tons of fraud/abuse/load scams (load is the credit for Globe/smart, it's called pulsa in indonesia) so many people just all together turn it off. OTP/MFA from all the major indonesian/malyasian and PH banks do Whatsapp MFA. BPI, BDO, Mandiri, Permata, BCA, Mayabank, HSBC, etc. Yes, even HSBC. It's even a big thing with USA banks - https://www.telemessage.com/citi-goldman-sachs-hsbc-and-other-top-banks-warn-of-being-investigated-by-sec-and-cftc-over-their-use-of-whatsapp/ https://www.telemessage.com/citi-goldman-sachs-hsbc-and-othe... but that's more for collusion then just ecommerce and general daily life activity. So tl;dr Whatsapp is required in SEA for daily life, otherwise you're the outdated outlier that needs to do phonecalls.
akritrime 3y ago
> how many people would knowingly buy a house if it came with an expectation that only one specific megacompany with pretty much nonexistant support could ever do repairs/rework/updates/changes to their house? a solid chunk, most people that are buying any condos in bigger cities
- redeeman 3y ago
  and its impossible to show up at the office of whomever manages that? to grab a phone and call someone?
  - akritrime 3y ago
    yep pretty much. you will call someone but they won't solve the issue, rather just keep you pointing to someone else. ultimately they will just follow their own timeline. they are being built and managed by similar faceless corporations. their scale may not be massive in the same way of Meta/FB but their profit driven structure is not much different. edit: not saying your point is wrong and people should ask these questions. just pointing that large corporations are treating their customers pretty much the same.
    - redeeman 3y ago
      and then its same result as whatsapp. and then they should probably also turn their brain on when buying into this arrangement
lockhouse 3y ago
Hasn’t long distance communications pretty much always been this way? The US Postal Service, Western Union telegraph networks, the Bell telephone system, ICQ, AOL Instant Messenger and many others were closed communication systems and services that relied on a single entity. Open communication protocols like email and cellular text messaging are the exception rather than the norm. There is really nothing new or ground breaking about what WhatsApp does, it’s just newer shinier ICQ.
- redeeman 3y ago
  and in the days of the WU telegraph network, you could most definitely go talk to the guys in charge, it was not a faceless corporation like facebook, or google. how easy was it to talk to the local USPS vs talking to a human at google? what is the likelyhood you could get some form of adequate help from the USPS office? or from the bell telephone network? get real, these megacompanies are just 100% not giving a flying fuck, because people seemingly turn off their brain and open their mouths wide

drw85 3y ago

It's not that easy in many parts of the world. Whatsapp became the standard communication not only with your friends, but also businesses. You talk to your bank manager via whatsapp and your doctor etc. No Whatsapp, no talk.

wholinator2 3y ago
That's very interesting, how often do you have text conversations with your doctor?
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  My Argentinian friend in Austria has some top-notch private medical insurance where he sent them pics of his semi deep cut injury on whatsapp, a doctor came to his place one hour later. My dermatologist also offers a whatsapp address where you can talk to her assisstant. My GP communicates via iMessage.
- phantomathkg 3y ago
  Singapore. Rent a place with all communication and signing contract via Whatsapp with agent.
- quechimba 3y ago
  I communicate with my dentist on WhatsApp. They send me appointment reminders the night before and I have to confirm.
redeeman 3y ago
you are simply 100% unable to get a doctors appointment if you dont have whatsapp? i dont believe it. Well i guess it sucks to need an ambulance when whatsapp has its maintenance window, guess people will just have to die

junon 3y ago

Because in some places Whatsapp is the only way to talk to people. Yes it's a sad status quo. But it IS the status quo nonetheless.

redeeman 3y ago
that is definitely false, it may be the most convenient way, but please stop with the complete nonsense. How exactly does it work? can i not call a regular number? can i not go knock on their door? in what way has society changed in those places that completely eliminates the options that existed in 1980? edit: and even if we accept your premise, how did this come to be?
- rootsudo 3y ago
  No, very much true. Can't do commerce in Indonesia, Singapore or Malaysia w/o Whatsapp. Weichat works in SG, but not in Indonesia or Malaysia. Line for Japan/Thailand. Kakao for S. Korea. You're not texting people via SMS, that is a paid feature and people don't pay for it / that's not considered normal. Delivery/Mail/Pos, also all on whatsapp.
  - redeeman 3y ago
    can you elaborate on "cant do commerce" ? and then dont text people. people say the same shit about facebook, the people I know say the same, that "you cant do anything without it", yet I somehow manage. Would it perhaps sometimes have been easier to go look some shit up on facebook? probably, is it required? well im still alive here to post
    - rootsudo 3y ago
      Shipping confirmations are sent via whatsapp via Tokopedia, Shopee and Lazada. Logging in / MFA is done via Whatsapp. You can have a whatsapp for business (which is a separate app from whatsapp but same thing but has built in ecomm tools) Grab/Gojek/Angas drivers won't text you, but would whatsapp you (cause it's free.) there is a built in dialer/voip into Grab/Gojek, but it sucks and sucks so much it can be useless unless you are ina n 4G LTE locaton and even then - it sucks. I've had countless drivers message me from a grab/gojek hail to confirm location, send live location, etc. Whatsapp is the status quo for communicating with friends, dates, co-workers, contractors, etc. No one wants to pay for an SMS plan - in Philippines it's barely there but most people have moved on due to tons of fraud/abuse/load scams (load is the credit for Globe/smart, it's called pulsa in indonesia) so many people just all together turn it off. OTP/MFA from all the major indonesian/malyasian and PH banks do Whatsapp MFA. BPI, BDO, Mandiri, Permata, BCA, Mayabank, HSBC, etc. Yes, even HSBC. It's even a big thing with USA banks - https://www.telemessage.com/citi-goldman-sachs-hsbc-and-other-top-banks-warn-of-being-investigated-by-sec-and-cftc-over-their-use-of-whatsapp/ https://www.telemessage.com/citi-goldman-sachs-hsbc-and-othe... but that's more for collusion then just ecommerce and general daily life activity. So tl;dr Whatsapp is required in SEA for daily life, otherwise you're the outdated outlier that needs to do phonecalls.

akritrime 3y ago

> how many people would knowingly buy a house if it came with an expectation that only one specific megacompany with pretty much nonexistant support could ever do repairs/rework/updates/changes to their house? a solid chunk, most people that are buying any condos in bigger cities

redeeman 3y ago
and its impossible to show up at the office of whomever manages that? to grab a phone and call someone?
- akritrime 3y ago
  yep pretty much. you will call someone but they won't solve the issue, rather just keep you pointing to someone else. ultimately they will just follow their own timeline. they are being built and managed by similar faceless corporations. their scale may not be massive in the same way of Meta/FB but their profit driven structure is not much different. edit: not saying your point is wrong and people should ask these questions. just pointing that large corporations are treating their customers pretty much the same.
  - redeeman 3y ago
    and then its same result as whatsapp. and then they should probably also turn their brain on when buying into this arrangement

lockhouse 3y ago

Hasn’t long distance communications pretty much always been this way? The US Postal Service, Western Union telegraph networks, the Bell telephone system, ICQ, AOL Instant Messenger and many others were closed communication systems and services that relied on a single entity. Open communication protocols like email and cellular text messaging are the exception rather than the norm. There is really nothing new or ground breaking about what WhatsApp does, it’s just newer shinier ICQ.

redeeman 3y ago
and in the days of the WU telegraph network, you could most definitely go talk to the guys in charge, it was not a faceless corporation like facebook, or google. how easy was it to talk to the local USPS vs talking to a human at google? what is the likelyhood you could get some form of adequate help from the USPS office? or from the bell telephone network? get real, these megacompanies are just 100% not giving a flying fuck, because people seemingly turn off their brain and open their mouths wide