7 ms·

This is the problem with western media's treatment of China. The relentless demonizing of China is either a coordinated effort in the mass media, designed by go

This is the problem with western media's treatment of China. The relentless demonizing of China is either a coordinated effort in the mass media, designed by governments agencies, and/or exaggerated to get clicks/views by writing "China bad". But many Americans swear that "freedom" means they don't drink any propaganda.

golergka 3y ago
Country that is actively perpetrating genocide on its own citizens and sells organs of its people on the black market doesn't need any demonizing. That's not even mentioning the communist regime. Humanity seems to have learned the lesson with fascism, but it somehow missed the same exact lesson with communism.
- senttoschool 3y ago
  >Country that is actively perpetrating genocide on its own citizens and sells organs of its people on the black market doesn't need any demonizing. So we're now going to label "re-education camps for extremist muslims" as genocide? What do you think China should do prevent extremist muslims living inside China from randomly killing innocent people, which was fairly common? How would you label the US killing innocent muslim civilians and invading muslim countries? That seems more like a genocide to me. This is my point. The amount of anti-China propaganda in western mainstream media is so blindingly strong that we can no longer have a logical conversation about China.
  - freshpots 3y ago
    https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-musl... Millions of people... millions. They're not all extremist Muslims that China is doing this to.
  - golergka 3y ago
    Does nothing click when you type “re-education camps” with your own hands?
    - senttoschool 3y ago
      Sure. A lot of things click. I actually happen to think that it's an imperfect solution to a very hard problem. Muslim extremism is a worldwide problem. I suggest reading a few of Sam Harris' essays. To me, re-educating them and removing the extremism is the imperfect solution to a hard problem. It's a hell of a lot better than invading muslim countries and bombing innocent them.
      - freshpots 3y ago
        Millions of people are in those camps, I highly doubt even 1% are these extremists you think they are. You're waving away a serious problem because of your extremely pro-China stance as evidenced by your comments. You should reevaluate your beliefs with better information that isn't coming from Chinese propaganda.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
    << The amount of anti-China propaganda in western mainstream media is so blindingly strong that we can no longer have a logical conversation about China. << What do you think China should do prevent extremist muslims living inside China from randomly killing innocent people, which was fairly common? We can absolutely have a logical conversation. Based on the information that we do have as a public, and it appears to be somewhat accurate, is 're-education camp' an euphemism or really just a school to adjust malcontents to the true way of life in China?
    - senttoschool 3y ago
      > We can absolutely have a logical conversation. Maybe. But definitely not with the average westerner whose knowledge of China is from mainstream media. Let me ask you this. When was the last time you read something positive about China in the mainstream media? If you can remember, how many negative stories to positive stories? 1.4 billion people and not a single good thing happens there, according to mainstream western media.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
        I kinda wanted to reflexively say no, but, the counter I was originally going to list was China space programme, and I read about those primarily from South China Monitor, Jazeera, while generic US news seemed less interested ( maybe with exception of AP ). As such, I don't think you are not wrong about the 'positive mention/negative mention' ratio, but is it the nature of western media or media in general ( 'if it bleeds, it leads' format that caters to the lowest common denominator ). FWIW, US media don't have a problem taking US down a peg when it fits the story. Conversely, can Chinese media to the same?
        senttoschool 3y ago
        How do you expect you and I to have a logical conversation about China if all you've ever read/watched is from a negative point of view? You’re going to argue “china bad” no matter what points I make because all you know is “china bad”. This is what happens in basically any debates about China on hacker news and pretty much anywhere in the west.
- joemazerino 3y ago
  Look up Hong Kong bookseller for an example of what happens to dissidents. In America, they are given MSNBC spots. In China, they disappear permanently.
  - golergka 3y ago
    My grandfather was a dissident in Soviet union, so I have a pretty good idea.
- snehk 3y ago
  > Humanity seems to have learned the lesson with fascism, but it somehow missed the same exact lesson with communism. Because the vast majority of people on this planet, when they learn about what communism is, learn about the ideas of it. The US is pretty much the only place where it's taught as "Whatever China is doing" and "whatever Russia did". Imagine someone talking about North Korea and constantly talking about how democracy is the reason for everything bad that's going on there. What they're doing must be democratic... it says so right in the name. Or the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
  - golergka 3y ago
    What Pol Pot and Mao did are natural consequences of these ideas. The communist ideas themselves are a promise that if you jump off a roof and start waving your hands really hard, you'll fly. Intelligent people drive their conclusions on empirical data instead of theories, but you're absolutely right about the majority.
  - Geezus_42 3y ago
    The problem is authoritarianism, not Communism. Fascism is authoritarian by definition. Communism CAN be authoritarian, but that is not built in by default.
- yunohn 3y ago
  Again, the point isn’t that China is doing problematic things. It’s that the media actively ignores or misrepresents the same behaviour by the West/USA.

golergka 3y ago

Country that is actively perpetrating genocide on its own citizens and sells organs of its people on the black market doesn't need any demonizing. That's not even mentioning the communist regime. Humanity seems to have learned the lesson with fascism, but it somehow missed the same exact lesson with communism.

senttoschool 3y ago
>Country that is actively perpetrating genocide on its own citizens and sells organs of its people on the black market doesn't need any demonizing. So we're now going to label "re-education camps for extremist muslims" as genocide? What do you think China should do prevent extremist muslims living inside China from randomly killing innocent people, which was fairly common? How would you label the US killing innocent muslim civilians and invading muslim countries? That seems more like a genocide to me. This is my point. The amount of anti-China propaganda in western mainstream media is so blindingly strong that we can no longer have a logical conversation about China.
- freshpots 3y ago
  https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-musl... Millions of people... millions. They're not all extremist Muslims that China is doing this to.
- golergka 3y ago
  Does nothing click when you type “re-education camps” with your own hands?
  - senttoschool 3y ago
    Sure. A lot of things click. I actually happen to think that it's an imperfect solution to a very hard problem. Muslim extremism is a worldwide problem. I suggest reading a few of Sam Harris' essays. To me, re-educating them and removing the extremism is the imperfect solution to a hard problem. It's a hell of a lot better than invading muslim countries and bombing innocent them.
    - freshpots 3y ago
      Millions of people are in those camps, I highly doubt even 1% are these extremists you think they are. You're waving away a serious problem because of your extremely pro-China stance as evidenced by your comments. You should reevaluate your beliefs with better information that isn't coming from Chinese propaganda.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
  << The amount of anti-China propaganda in western mainstream media is so blindingly strong that we can no longer have a logical conversation about China. << What do you think China should do prevent extremist muslims living inside China from randomly killing innocent people, which was fairly common? We can absolutely have a logical conversation. Based on the information that we do have as a public, and it appears to be somewhat accurate, is 're-education camp' an euphemism or really just a school to adjust malcontents to the true way of life in China?
  - senttoschool 3y ago
    > We can absolutely have a logical conversation. Maybe. But definitely not with the average westerner whose knowledge of China is from mainstream media. Let me ask you this. When was the last time you read something positive about China in the mainstream media? If you can remember, how many negative stories to positive stories? 1.4 billion people and not a single good thing happens there, according to mainstream western media.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
      I kinda wanted to reflexively say no, but, the counter I was originally going to list was China space programme, and I read about those primarily from South China Monitor, Jazeera, while generic US news seemed less interested ( maybe with exception of AP ). As such, I don't think you are not wrong about the 'positive mention/negative mention' ratio, but is it the nature of western media or media in general ( 'if it bleeds, it leads' format that caters to the lowest common denominator ). FWIW, US media don't have a problem taking US down a peg when it fits the story. Conversely, can Chinese media to the same?
      - senttoschool 3y ago
        How do you expect you and I to have a logical conversation about China if all you've ever read/watched is from a negative point of view? You’re going to argue “china bad” no matter what points I make because all you know is “china bad”. This is what happens in basically any debates about China on hacker news and pretty much anywhere in the west.
joemazerino 3y ago
Look up Hong Kong bookseller for an example of what happens to dissidents. In America, they are given MSNBC spots. In China, they disappear permanently.
- golergka 3y ago
  My grandfather was a dissident in Soviet union, so I have a pretty good idea.
snehk 3y ago
> Humanity seems to have learned the lesson with fascism, but it somehow missed the same exact lesson with communism. Because the vast majority of people on this planet, when they learn about what communism is, learn about the ideas of it. The US is pretty much the only place where it's taught as "Whatever China is doing" and "whatever Russia did". Imagine someone talking about North Korea and constantly talking about how democracy is the reason for everything bad that's going on there. What they're doing must be democratic... it says so right in the name. Or the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
- golergka 3y ago
  What Pol Pot and Mao did are natural consequences of these ideas. The communist ideas themselves are a promise that if you jump off a roof and start waving your hands really hard, you'll fly. Intelligent people drive their conclusions on empirical data instead of theories, but you're absolutely right about the majority.
- Geezus_42 3y ago
  The problem is authoritarianism, not Communism. Fascism is authoritarian by definition. Communism CAN be authoritarian, but that is not built in by default.
yunohn 3y ago
Again, the point isn’t that China is doing problematic things. It’s that the media actively ignores or misrepresents the same behaviour by the West/USA.