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Reminder that PFAS is so pervasive that researchers can't design studies with a proper control group. i.e. they virtually cannot find anyone in the world withou

Reminder that PFAS is so pervasive that researchers can't design studies with a proper control group. i.e. they virtually cannot find anyone in the world without PFAS in their blood. Dupont/3M did (and continue to do) a level of harm on par with CFCs and leaded gasoline, with complete regulatory impunity. At some point the ICC needs to extend the crimes against humanity/nature to something like crimes against Human Health.

DiabloD3 3y ago
I agree. However, how do you go after people who have so much money they can literally buy their way out of any appropriate punishment? We need something stronger than the ICC.
- cnity 3y ago
  There are solutions but they exist only outside of the judicial system...
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    There is hope for refom, back in mediaval times judicial system had many creative punishments
  - unaindz 3y ago
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
mdp2021 3y ago
> Dupont/3M did (and continue to do) a level of harm 3M is on The Economist today with relevance to this matter: > 3M, an American conglomerate, agreed to pay cities and utilities $12.5bn to settle thousands of lawsuits that had alleged chemicals emitted by the firm's products had polluted drinking-water supplies
- MrBodangles 3y ago
  Nice. I’m guessing that’ll barely cover a years worth of filtration (which they won’t ever spend it on anyway). What about the next 100 years? Let them profit because oligarchy?
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  What about all the other cities in the world? If the true cost of this damage were paid, 3M would be driven to bancrupsy. Maybe then the next conpany would not be so gun-ho about dumping strange chemicals. This is your regular reminder that many of the wealthy are only so, because they never pay for the consequences of their actions.
  - DriverDaily 3y ago
    It’s hard to blame it all on one class. Littering was a social norm when these chemicals were invented. Even today, most Americans eat meat from factory farms, drive gas powered cars, and throw most trash in a landfill. Problems that will have to eventually be fixed. If you’re born into this kind of society are you going to handicap yourself by holding yourself to a stricter set of rules than everyone else? The ‘yes’ and ‘no’s to that question don’t fall neatly into class lines.
    - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
      > throw most trash in a landfill. Is this some stranhe double-hypocracy? If 3M put their crap is a properly contained landfill, millions of people wouldn't be poisoned! 'Sins of the consumer' is a toxic ideology!
      - DriverDaily 3y ago
        If you want to be proactive about problems you need the political will to create and enforce rules. But nobody votes for rules that make people’s lives worse now, but future generations lives better. You can’t just blame rich people for that. The political will didn’t exist for pfas back then, and it doesn’t exist for things like water scarcity, or antibiotic resistance, or e-waste today.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
> Reminder that PFAS is so pervasive that researchers can't design studies with a proper control group. i.e. they virtually cannot find anyone in the world without PFAS in their blood. The very pervasiveness argues against PFAS being that bad for humans in real life. Despite pretty much everyone having PFAS in their blood, at a global level, health is probably better than ever and most health problems are from refined sugars and sedentary lifestyle than anything that can be attributed to PFAS.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

DiabloD3 3y ago

I agree. However, how do you go after people who have so much money they can literally buy their way out of any appropriate punishment? We need something stronger than the ICC.

cnity 3y ago
There are solutions but they exist only outside of the judicial system...
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  There is hope for refom, back in mediaval times judicial system had many creative punishments
- unaindz 3y ago
  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

mdp2021 3y ago

> Dupont/3M did (and continue to do) a level of harm 3M is on The Economist today with relevance to this matter: > 3M, an American conglomerate, agreed to pay cities and utilities $12.5bn to settle thousands of lawsuits that had alleged chemicals emitted by the firm's products had polluted drinking-water supplies

MrBodangles 3y ago
Nice. I’m guessing that’ll barely cover a years worth of filtration (which they won’t ever spend it on anyway). What about the next 100 years? Let them profit because oligarchy?
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
What about all the other cities in the world? If the true cost of this damage were paid, 3M would be driven to bancrupsy. Maybe then the next conpany would not be so gun-ho about dumping strange chemicals. This is your regular reminder that many of the wealthy are only so, because they never pay for the consequences of their actions.
- DriverDaily 3y ago
  It’s hard to blame it all on one class. Littering was a social norm when these chemicals were invented. Even today, most Americans eat meat from factory farms, drive gas powered cars, and throw most trash in a landfill. Problems that will have to eventually be fixed. If you’re born into this kind of society are you going to handicap yourself by holding yourself to a stricter set of rules than everyone else? The ‘yes’ and ‘no’s to that question don’t fall neatly into class lines.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > throw most trash in a landfill. Is this some stranhe double-hypocracy? If 3M put their crap is a properly contained landfill, millions of people wouldn't be poisoned! 'Sins of the consumer' is a toxic ideology!
    - DriverDaily 3y ago
      If you want to be proactive about problems you need the political will to create and enforce rules. But nobody votes for rules that make people’s lives worse now, but future generations lives better. You can’t just blame rich people for that. The political will didn’t exist for pfas back then, and it doesn’t exist for things like water scarcity, or antibiotic resistance, or e-waste today.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago

> Reminder that PFAS is so pervasive that researchers can't design studies with a proper control group. i.e. they virtually cannot find anyone in the world without PFAS in their blood. The very pervasiveness argues against PFAS being that bad for humans in real life. Despite pretty much everyone having PFAS in their blood, at a global level, health is probably better than ever and most health problems are from refined sugars and sedentary lifestyle than anything that can be attributed to PFAS.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]