4 ms·

The article does not cite or link to the study. > The researchers found that people who ate microwave popcorn every day over the course of a year had levels of

by eadler 3y ago

The article does not cite or link to the study. > The researchers found that people who ate microwave popcorn every day over the course of a year had levels of PFAS that were up to 63% higher than average. As far as I could tell the relevant study [1] merely finds association rather than causation. This is often the best you can do in the nutrition field though. I have not yet read through the entire contents. [1] Herbert P. Susmann, Laurel A. Schaider, Kathryn M. Rodgers, and Ruthann A. Rudel. 2019. Dietary Habits Related to Food Packaging and Population Exposure to PFASs. Environmental Health Perspectives 127, 10 (October 2019). DOI:https://doi.org/10.1289/EHP4092 https://doi.org/10.1289/EHP4092

Bud 3y ago
I mean, the study states clearly that the PFAS are in the "food contact materials" in question, here, which are the microwave popcorn bags. Then they end up in the people. Kind of open and shut.
hombre_fatal 3y ago
Even double blinded randomized cross over trials only shows associations. That doesn’t mean you can’t make reasonable casual inferences after looking at the balance of evidence. Else we couldn’t even infer that smoking causes cancer, something most people have to bite the bullet on when they denounce nutrition science.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- gretch 3y ago
  ? You can show causation by having a test group and a control group. Just get N people. Have the control group eat pot cooked popcorn and have the experimental group eat microwave. You can’t get causation by just observing, but once you are willing to make someone do something, then it’s pretty easy to arrive at. I tried to verify the GP quote but actually couldn’t find it in the study - but if it’s true, people who eat microwave popcorn every day for a year is an extreme population in all sorts of ways. I don’t eat anything every day for a year, much less popcorn.
  - brightlancer 3y ago
    The quote is in the original UCLA Health article, not the study. "Research suggests that people who regularly consume microwave popcorn have markedly higher levels of PFAS in their bodies. A study published in 2019 analyzed a decade of data about the eating habits of 10,000 people, which was collected by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention between 2003 and 2014. Blood samples from the study participants were also collected. The researchers found that people who ate microwave popcorn every day over the course of a year had levels of PFAS that were up to 63% higher than average."
  - alvarezbjm-hn 3y ago
    Who is going to fund a study designed to find causation of high pfas blood levels? The corn producers, the microwave popcorn brands? If any of them ever does, be sure that the study will either find no proof of causation or not be published
    - FooBarWidget 3y ago
      The ministry of public health?
  - jay_kyburz 3y ago
    You also have to have the control group eat every other meal the same as the study. The first thing that comes to my mind if you are eating microwave popcorn every day, what other junk foods are you eating every day?
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > Just get N people. Have the control group eat pot cooked popcorn and have the experimental group eat microwave You can only control what people eat if you lock them up in a prison or similar institution. These days locking up thousands of people and experimenting with their diet is not cool. The best nutritional / food studies come from prisons and similar institutions.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
squokko 3y ago
Especially since someone who eats microwave popcorn EVERY DAY is someone who clearly treats their body like a garbage can
- pas 3y ago
  it's cheap, even vegan probably (if not buttered), not full of sugar, etc. what's wrong with it? yes, every day seems suboptimal, but it's not trivial to have a varied balanced healthy diet, and folks need to eat every day (usually at least twice).
  - esperent 3y ago
    The reality of commercial microwave popcorn is the problem, not the "idea" of microwave popcorn, if that makes sense. What I mean is, if you make homemade microwave popcorn with good oils and a pinch of salt it's presumably fine. But the cheap packets you buy in the store, brand-name or not, are full of crap - rancid, cheap oils, additives and preservatives of all kinds, weird artificial flavors, almost certainly a ridiculous amount of salt and sugar, and now possibly packaging that's of such poor quality it leeches PFAs. It's not the corn that's the problem.
fbdab103 3y ago
>...that were up to 63% higher than average "Up to" can cover a lot of sins. Does that mean one person had 63% higher than normal and the median daily-popcorn eater was 10% higher?

by eadler 3y ago

Bud 3y ago

I mean, the study states clearly that the PFAS are in the "food contact materials" in question, here, which are the microwave popcorn bags. Then they end up in the people. Kind of open and shut.

hombre_fatal 3y ago

Even double blinded randomized cross over trials only shows associations. That doesn’t mean you can’t make reasonable casual inferences after looking at the balance of evidence. Else we couldn’t even infer that smoking causes cancer, something most people have to bite the bullet on when they denounce nutrition science.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gretch 3y ago
? You can show causation by having a test group and a control group. Just get N people. Have the control group eat pot cooked popcorn and have the experimental group eat microwave. You can’t get causation by just observing, but once you are willing to make someone do something, then it’s pretty easy to arrive at. I tried to verify the GP quote but actually couldn’t find it in the study - but if it’s true, people who eat microwave popcorn every day for a year is an extreme population in all sorts of ways. I don’t eat anything every day for a year, much less popcorn.
- brightlancer 3y ago
  The quote is in the original UCLA Health article, not the study. "Research suggests that people who regularly consume microwave popcorn have markedly higher levels of PFAS in their bodies. A study published in 2019 analyzed a decade of data about the eating habits of 10,000 people, which was collected by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention between 2003 and 2014. Blood samples from the study participants were also collected. The researchers found that people who ate microwave popcorn every day over the course of a year had levels of PFAS that were up to 63% higher than average."
- alvarezbjm-hn 3y ago
  Who is going to fund a study designed to find causation of high pfas blood levels? The corn producers, the microwave popcorn brands? If any of them ever does, be sure that the study will either find no proof of causation or not be published
  - FooBarWidget 3y ago
    The ministry of public health?
- jay_kyburz 3y ago
  You also have to have the control group eat every other meal the same as the study. The first thing that comes to my mind if you are eating microwave popcorn every day, what other junk foods are you eating every day?
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > Just get N people. Have the control group eat pot cooked popcorn and have the experimental group eat microwave You can only control what people eat if you lock them up in a prison or similar institution. These days locking up thousands of people and experimenting with their diet is not cool. The best nutritional / food studies come from prisons and similar institutions.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago

squokko 3y ago

Especially since someone who eats microwave popcorn EVERY DAY is someone who clearly treats their body like a garbage can

pas 3y ago
it's cheap, even vegan probably (if not buttered), not full of sugar, etc. what's wrong with it? yes, every day seems suboptimal, but it's not trivial to have a varied balanced healthy diet, and folks need to eat every day (usually at least twice).
- esperent 3y ago
  The reality of commercial microwave popcorn is the problem, not the "idea" of microwave popcorn, if that makes sense. What I mean is, if you make homemade microwave popcorn with good oils and a pinch of salt it's presumably fine. But the cheap packets you buy in the store, brand-name or not, are full of crap - rancid, cheap oils, additives and preservatives of all kinds, weird artificial flavors, almost certainly a ridiculous amount of salt and sugar, and now possibly packaging that's of such poor quality it leeches PFAs. It's not the corn that's the problem.

fbdab103 3y ago

>...that were up to 63% higher than average "Up to" can cover a lot of sins. Does that mean one person had 63% higher than normal and the median daily-popcorn eater was 10% higher?