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> to people speculating that the passengers may have drowned In layman terms “drowned” simply means that you died under water. It is not a sophisticated statem

> to people speculating that the passengers may have drowned In layman terms “drowned” simply means that you died under water. It is not a sophisticated statement about the manner of anyone’s passing. People in the know understand that on a submarine you can die of hypoxia (if they mismanage the oxygen), or die of hypothermia (if they get stuck on the bottom with an intact pressure vessel, but no electricity) or die in an implosion, or burn to death in a conventional fire. In an everday conversation these all would be described as “drowned” by virtue of dying underwater even though none of them are what a coroner would report as drowning.

barbs 3y ago
I really don't think that's true at all. I consider drowning to be inhaling water and being unable to breathe, not just any death that happens underwater, and I imagine most people would think the same.
- krisoft 3y ago
  Sure. The people who said they have drowned probably think the same. But it doesn’t mean that they have carefully considered all the possible failure modes of a submersible and postulating that one which leads to a drowning is the most likely in this case. It expresses more a vibe that the speaker thinks they are dead. But why not make it more concrete. Can you find a single example where someone says that they have drowned and the speaker means it as a carefull engineering analysis regarding failure modes, as opposed to a general vibe of “they dead”?
CryptoBanker 3y ago
Who died and made you the authority on layman terms? I'm pretty sure most people if they heard "drowned" would assumed that it was because they had water in their lungs
- stcroixx 3y ago
  Agree, am layman. Dying in a fire underwater is not drowning.
- krisoft 3y ago
  > Who died and made you the authority on layman terms? Fair. I'm not an expert on it or anything. But I do listen to how people speak, and what they mean. Many people are using words loosely. I searched on twitter for tweets with the term "drowned". Scrolled through a few hundred, and filtered out the ones which were talking about the Titan incident and which said or implied that the people on-board "drowned". I found 5 such tweets. This is of course not an exhaustive sample, but is what I have now. Here are the five tweets (please don't harass any of these people, also I'm not endorsing these tweets in any way) - https://twitter.com/OfSymbols/status/1671581923825668098 https://twitter.com/OfSymbols/status/1671581923825668098 - https://twitter.com/samphiresprite/status/1671965938558574593 https://twitter.com/samphiresprite/status/167196593855857459... - https://twitter.com/Devin_Young_/status/1671237153446035456 https://twitter.com/Devin_Young_/status/1671237153446035456 - https://twitter.com/NagaSlateTTV/status/1672006200538570752 https://twitter.com/NagaSlateTTV/status/1672006200538570752 - https://twitter.com/martinvars/status/1671994282478010368 https://twitter.com/martinvars/status/1671994282478010368 Do read them. Do you have the impression that these people considered the failure modes of a submersible and concluded that the people on-board died due to a slow leak filling up the cabin and their lungs filling up with water? Or it is more likely that they use the word "drowned" as a loose shorthand for "died under water / died due to the sea"? I think they more likely did the second. Either never considered how one dies on a submarine, or they were writing without care for exactitude. In fact I have evidence for this second one in one of these cases. Devin_Young_ who claims to be a veteran submariner and he was called out[1] in a later tweet for the implications of the term "drowned". His answer was "I used “drowned” loosely. You are correct; it would be violent, and instantaneous.". Also NagaSlateTTV used the hastag "implosion" right after calling those lost "drowned". Which to me implies that they are using the term in a more general way, rather than precisely per the definition. 1: https://twitter.com/Devin_Young_/status/1671267529392783360 https://twitter.com/Devin_Young_/status/1671267529392783360

barbs 3y ago

I really don't think that's true at all. I consider drowning to be inhaling water and being unable to breathe, not just any death that happens underwater, and I imagine most people would think the same.

krisoft 3y ago
Sure. The people who said they have drowned probably think the same. But it doesn’t mean that they have carefully considered all the possible failure modes of a submersible and postulating that one which leads to a drowning is the most likely in this case. It expresses more a vibe that the speaker thinks they are dead. But why not make it more concrete. Can you find a single example where someone says that they have drowned and the speaker means it as a carefull engineering analysis regarding failure modes, as opposed to a general vibe of “they dead”?

CryptoBanker 3y ago

Who died and made you the authority on layman terms? I'm pretty sure most people if they heard "drowned" would assumed that it was because they had water in their lungs

stcroixx 3y ago
Agree, am layman. Dying in a fire underwater is not drowning.
krisoft 3y ago
> Who died and made you the authority on layman terms? Fair. I'm not an expert on it or anything. But I do listen to how people speak, and what they mean. Many people are using words loosely. I searched on twitter for tweets with the term "drowned". Scrolled through a few hundred, and filtered out the ones which were talking about the Titan incident and which said or implied that the people on-board "drowned". I found 5 such tweets. This is of course not an exhaustive sample, but is what I have now. Here are the five tweets (please don't harass any of these people, also I'm not endorsing these tweets in any way) - https://twitter.com/OfSymbols/status/1671581923825668098 https://twitter.com/OfSymbols/status/1671581923825668098 - https://twitter.com/samphiresprite/status/1671965938558574593 https://twitter.com/samphiresprite/status/167196593855857459... - https://twitter.com/Devin_Young_/status/1671237153446035456 https://twitter.com/Devin_Young_/status/1671237153446035456 - https://twitter.com/NagaSlateTTV/status/1672006200538570752 https://twitter.com/NagaSlateTTV/status/1672006200538570752 - https://twitter.com/martinvars/status/1671994282478010368 https://twitter.com/martinvars/status/1671994282478010368 Do read them. Do you have the impression that these people considered the failure modes of a submersible and concluded that the people on-board died due to a slow leak filling up the cabin and their lungs filling up with water? Or it is more likely that they use the word "drowned" as a loose shorthand for "died under water / died due to the sea"? I think they more likely did the second. Either never considered how one dies on a submarine, or they were writing without care for exactitude. In fact I have evidence for this second one in one of these cases. Devin_Young_ who claims to be a veteran submariner and he was called out[1] in a later tweet for the implications of the term "drowned". His answer was "I used “drowned” loosely. You are correct; it would be violent, and instantaneous.". Also NagaSlateTTV used the hastag "implosion" right after calling those lost "drowned". Which to me implies that they are using the term in a more general way, rather than precisely per the definition. 1: https://twitter.com/Devin_Young_/status/1671267529392783360 https://twitter.com/Devin_Young_/status/1671267529392783360