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> I am only one serious illness away from bankruptcy and that is stressing me out Well, you're only one serious illness away from death. I'm not trying to be f

> I am only one serious illness away from bankruptcy and that is stressing me out Well, you're only one serious illness away from death. I'm not trying to be flippant here; there are more things that can properly kill you rather than just make you seriously ill and bankrupt you, provided your health insurance is decent. I do want to emphatically underscore that this isn't an endorsement of the system. It's just that if you're worried about almost dying and you're not worried about actually dying, you're probably miscalibrated. The best we can do is minimize the risk of Really Bad Outcomes. No one, no matter how rich, can avoid them altogether. All of us are gonna die.

Retric 3y ago
IMO, a great number of things are worse than death because dead me can’t suffer while live me can. Death isn’t unpleasant, it’s a bad outcome for me only in that it prevents the pleasure of living well. My death is a concern for those who care for or are dependent on me, but so is my incapacity and suffering.
- nwiswell 3y ago
  "Bankruptcy is literally worse than death" is a new one for me, gotta be honest. If you really feel that way, there's always the emergency exit.
  - Arainach 3y ago
    In some important ways it absolutely can be, and the emergency exit doesn't help. If I die, life insurance pays out. If I commit suicide, it doesn't. If I die, there are some basic optional-but-socially-mandatory costs around disposal of the corpse and a memorial ceremony. Those are fixed and measured in thousands, not tens or hundreds of thousands. My property and assets pass to my heirs. They are grieving but financially secure. Prolonged illness can sap my reserves dry and drain me of wealth in a manner matched only by the retirement home industry. My family can watch me suffer and wilt away while watching their potential financial security drip through a hose into my veins.
    - 9659 3y ago
      Actually, most life insurance pays out on suicide. After 2 years of holding the policy.
  - softsound 3y ago
    Hahaha bankruptcy worse then death??? It's like saying a divorce will break you. Man, imagine these people living with common people who go through this stuff all the time.
- hcks 3y ago
  Thanks Epictetus, but I’m pretty sure that many (most?) people would take bankruptcy over terminal disease.
  - Retric 3y ago
    In the US terminal diseases have a nasty habit of also resulting in bankruptcy.
ridgeguy 3y ago
Health insurance in the US isn't 'decent'. Chronic illness, long-term care, catastrophic events excluded from coverage - these are real things that daily wreck American families. Of course one may be only a serious illness away from death, and I don't take that as flippant. But the far more common circumstance is that one is several illnesses and/or a long chronic medical decline away from death, with both circumstances likely to be hugely expensive in the US compared to other first world nations. The economic fallout can mean that family members can't get a good education, can't move to take a better job...all the things that, sometimes, just a little more $$ can make possible. The US hasn't prioritized its citizens' wellbeing to the extent they deserve. In that regard, OP is spot on: the US is not a place to retire.
- Alupis 3y ago
  It is really difficult to imagine someone who's in the top 5% of either income earners or net worth (they didn't specify) and still does not have access to quality healthcare. This is a trope, and it's not nearly as accurate as people want to believe, it seems. Top 5% of US income earners are around $343k[1] and top 5% of net worth is over $1MM[2]. If you are in this bracket - by either measurement - and are actually fearing bankruptcy from a medical expense, then you are clearly screwing up somewhere in your financial life, and likely living well beyond your actual means. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/ https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-incom... [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/know-im-rich-140000452.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/know-im-rich-140000452.html
  - Retric 3y ago
    Your [1] link is “Average Annual Wages” for the entire bracket, not the minimum wage to reach that income bracket. Top 5% is around 187,000k in the US, and that’s not as high as it sounds due to recent inflation. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ However, that doesn’t necessarily include any benefits. It’s expensive and relatively uncommon to get long term disability insurance that will cover lost income if you’re an hourly 1099 contractor, which is necessary for any chronic condition that prevents you from being able to work. Think offshore oil workers for someone that’s most at risk while being in that income bracket.

Retric 3y ago

IMO, a great number of things are worse than death because dead me can’t suffer while live me can. Death isn’t unpleasant, it’s a bad outcome for me only in that it prevents the pleasure of living well. My death is a concern for those who care for or are dependent on me, but so is my incapacity and suffering.

nwiswell 3y ago
"Bankruptcy is literally worse than death" is a new one for me, gotta be honest. If you really feel that way, there's always the emergency exit.
- Arainach 3y ago
  In some important ways it absolutely can be, and the emergency exit doesn't help. If I die, life insurance pays out. If I commit suicide, it doesn't. If I die, there are some basic optional-but-socially-mandatory costs around disposal of the corpse and a memorial ceremony. Those are fixed and measured in thousands, not tens or hundreds of thousands. My property and assets pass to my heirs. They are grieving but financially secure. Prolonged illness can sap my reserves dry and drain me of wealth in a manner matched only by the retirement home industry. My family can watch me suffer and wilt away while watching their potential financial security drip through a hose into my veins.
  - 9659 3y ago
    Actually, most life insurance pays out on suicide. After 2 years of holding the policy.
- softsound 3y ago
  Hahaha bankruptcy worse then death??? It's like saying a divorce will break you. Man, imagine these people living with common people who go through this stuff all the time.
hcks 3y ago
Thanks Epictetus, but I’m pretty sure that many (most?) people would take bankruptcy over terminal disease.
- Retric 3y ago
  In the US terminal diseases have a nasty habit of also resulting in bankruptcy.

ridgeguy 3y ago

Health insurance in the US isn't 'decent'. Chronic illness, long-term care, catastrophic events excluded from coverage - these are real things that daily wreck American families. Of course one may be only a serious illness away from death, and I don't take that as flippant. But the far more common circumstance is that one is several illnesses and/or a long chronic medical decline away from death, with both circumstances likely to be hugely expensive in the US compared to other first world nations. The economic fallout can mean that family members can't get a good education, can't move to take a better job...all the things that, sometimes, just a little more $$ can make possible. The US hasn't prioritized its citizens' wellbeing to the extent they deserve. In that regard, OP is spot on: the US is not a place to retire.

Alupis 3y ago
It is really difficult to imagine someone who's in the top 5% of either income earners or net worth (they didn't specify) and still does not have access to quality healthcare. This is a trope, and it's not nearly as accurate as people want to believe, it seems. Top 5% of US income earners are around $343k[1] and top 5% of net worth is over $1MM[2]. If you are in this bracket - by either measurement - and are actually fearing bankruptcy from a medical expense, then you are clearly screwing up somewhere in your financial life, and likely living well beyond your actual means. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/ https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-incom... [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/know-im-rich-140000452.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/know-im-rich-140000452.html
- Retric 3y ago
  Your [1] link is “Average Annual Wages” for the entire bracket, not the minimum wage to reach that income bracket. Top 5% is around 187,000k in the US, and that’s not as high as it sounds due to recent inflation. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ However, that doesn’t necessarily include any benefits. It’s expensive and relatively uncommon to get long term disability insurance that will cover lost income if you’re an hourly 1099 contractor, which is necessary for any chronic condition that prevents you from being able to work. Think offshore oil workers for someone that’s most at risk while being in that income bracket.