6 ms·

Decreasing in quality relative to what? Is something you're using blowing YouTube out of the water with its recommendations?

by Zetice 3y ago

_Algernon_ 3y ago
Relative to Youtube 10 years ago. It's constant enshittification[1] [1]: https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/ https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/
- hyperhopper 3y ago
  While it's trendy to link this now, users self-mutilating their content for clicks is not enshittification
  - _Algernon_ 3y ago
    Enshittification is when business goals (ie maximizing short term profits) leads to the deterioration of the platform for the users. I see the fact that the YT algorithm is tuned to encourage click-baiting as a symptom of the business goals at Youtube. It is not "self-mutilating their content" if it is required to survive on the platform.
asciimov 3y ago
YouTube of a few years ago, back when discovery was more important than monetization.
eddythompson80 3y ago
I think when people say that, which I have said before too, we usually refer to previous experience with YouTube. Same when I criticize Google's search quality for example. It's compared to how I found it before. Sure that's a bit difficult to quantify. Like for example, there was a period where discovering new channels that were right up my ally was something that happened once or twice a week. YouTube would just recommend a really interesting video from a channel I have never seen before, then I'd discover a lot of content that I really enjoy. Recently, I needed to cruise Reddit and other random sites for recommendation. Then maybe every few months I'd come across a channel that's 6 or 7 years old that's exactly the stuff I watch all the time, and some how I never saw it before despite searching for very similar terms before and finding nothing I was interested in. For example, I just discovered a channel called asianometry. He's been making videos that are exactly the kind of stuff I wanna listen to when I'm walking the dogs, but some how I came across it by a complete accident through Reddit.
- Nathan2055 3y ago
  If there’s an option on whatever YouTube interface you’re using, try to select the “Related” section of the recommendations on a video. At least in my experience, that list seems to be running the old algorithm that actually pulls videos related to what you’re currently watching, and doesn’t utilize the awful “personalized” algorithm that just recommends that same three videos over and over again. The worst part is that the existence of that feed in some versions of YouTube means that they’re totally capable of offering the classic 2014-era recommendations that people really liked across the board, they just...don’t. For some reason.
  - eddythompson80 3y ago
    huh, interesting. Thanks. I never noticed it before, but at least on desktop I can see the option. It doesn't seem to be on iOS as far as I can tell.
- Zetice 3y ago
  Ah. How do folks who compare YT with itself justify the explosive growth YT has experienced in that timeframe?
  - eddythompson80 3y ago
    A massive expansion into new markets, an entire generation of new users, and lack of any meaningful competition due to the size of library and sheer cost to run such business profitably. In the last 10 years, YouTube has expanded their partner program across the globe and reduced the requirements to become eligible to make money. They struck profit sharing deals with many traditional media companies many countries too that drove more people from those countries to the platform, which then drove views for organic users, which made being a "YouTuber" a viable career option in many new markets, which drove engagement, etc. There is also no surprise that during the last 10 years there was an absolute explosion in the number of 1-14 year olds getting hooked on the platform. That cohort has almost infinite free time. Videos targeting 1-5 year olds literally have hundreds of millions of views. There are channels that regularly do 200M views per video just in tantalizing colors, music and shapes for that cohort alone. Then there is the 8-12 cohort, and the 13-17 cohort. YouTube only reports some of the 13+ numbers because of laws probably, but it's an everyday sight for me to see very young kids in trance staring at "YouTube Kids" videos while their parents do grocery or deal with guests, etc. And finally, there is no YouTube competition. Facebook tried for a while, but they didn't make a dent. Twitch is for streaming, not video content. TikTok is the only competition YouTube sort of has, and it's still a different format/appeal. YouTube killed short content format a long time ago because they thought people leave YouTube too quickly if they load a page to play 20 second video. TikTok showed them that there is at least 1 billion people who are into that if the UX is right. But other than that, there is no YouTube alternative/competition because it's almost impossible to operate such thing profitably. In the last 10 years more and more people have come online. Video is a very important format, and YouTube has an absolute monopoly on it. Google can turn profit on YouTube now, while also controlling the entire online video market. No one else finds the ROI equation worth it because there is a very little chance they would dethrone YouTube, and it's very expensive and not at all profitable being a very distant #2.
atum47 3y ago
Relative to itself. I truly discovered YouTube back in 2016. It recommend me Ben Eater building a computer on a breadboard for instance. Great stuff. Now a days it recommends good stuff once in a while, most part is irrelevant to my taste or the content i watch on that account (i have two, just so content don't get mixed up)

Decreasing in quality relative to what? Is something you're using blowing YouTube out of the water with its recommendations?

by Zetice 3y ago

Decreasing in quality relative to what? Is something you're using blowing YouTube out of the water with its recommendations?

_Algernon_ 3y ago

Relative to Youtube 10 years ago. It's constant enshittification[1] [1]: https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/ https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/

hyperhopper 3y ago
While it's trendy to link this now, users self-mutilating their content for clicks is not enshittification
- _Algernon_ 3y ago
  Enshittification is when business goals (ie maximizing short term profits) leads to the deterioration of the platform for the users. I see the fact that the YT algorithm is tuned to encourage click-baiting as a symptom of the business goals at Youtube. It is not "self-mutilating their content" if it is required to survive on the platform.

asciimov 3y ago

YouTube of a few years ago, back when discovery was more important than monetization.

eddythompson80 3y ago

I think when people say that, which I have said before too, we usually refer to previous experience with YouTube. Same when I criticize Google's search quality for example. It's compared to how I found it before. Sure that's a bit difficult to quantify. Like for example, there was a period where discovering new channels that were right up my ally was something that happened once or twice a week. YouTube would just recommend a really interesting video from a channel I have never seen before, then I'd discover a lot of content that I really enjoy. Recently, I needed to cruise Reddit and other random sites for recommendation. Then maybe every few months I'd come across a channel that's 6 or 7 years old that's exactly the stuff I watch all the time, and some how I never saw it before despite searching for very similar terms before and finding nothing I was interested in. For example, I just discovered a channel called asianometry. He's been making videos that are exactly the kind of stuff I wanna listen to when I'm walking the dogs, but some how I came across it by a complete accident through Reddit.

Nathan2055 3y ago
If there’s an option on whatever YouTube interface you’re using, try to select the “Related” section of the recommendations on a video. At least in my experience, that list seems to be running the old algorithm that actually pulls videos related to what you’re currently watching, and doesn’t utilize the awful “personalized” algorithm that just recommends that same three videos over and over again. The worst part is that the existence of that feed in some versions of YouTube means that they’re totally capable of offering the classic 2014-era recommendations that people really liked across the board, they just...don’t. For some reason.
- eddythompson80 3y ago
  huh, interesting. Thanks. I never noticed it before, but at least on desktop I can see the option. It doesn't seem to be on iOS as far as I can tell.
Zetice 3y ago
Ah. How do folks who compare YT with itself justify the explosive growth YT has experienced in that timeframe?
- eddythompson80 3y ago
  A massive expansion into new markets, an entire generation of new users, and lack of any meaningful competition due to the size of library and sheer cost to run such business profitably. In the last 10 years, YouTube has expanded their partner program across the globe and reduced the requirements to become eligible to make money. They struck profit sharing deals with many traditional media companies many countries too that drove more people from those countries to the platform, which then drove views for organic users, which made being a "YouTuber" a viable career option in many new markets, which drove engagement, etc. There is also no surprise that during the last 10 years there was an absolute explosion in the number of 1-14 year olds getting hooked on the platform. That cohort has almost infinite free time. Videos targeting 1-5 year olds literally have hundreds of millions of views. There are channels that regularly do 200M views per video just in tantalizing colors, music and shapes for that cohort alone. Then there is the 8-12 cohort, and the 13-17 cohort. YouTube only reports some of the 13+ numbers because of laws probably, but it's an everyday sight for me to see very young kids in trance staring at "YouTube Kids" videos while their parents do grocery or deal with guests, etc. And finally, there is no YouTube competition. Facebook tried for a while, but they didn't make a dent. Twitch is for streaming, not video content. TikTok is the only competition YouTube sort of has, and it's still a different format/appeal. YouTube killed short content format a long time ago because they thought people leave YouTube too quickly if they load a page to play 20 second video. TikTok showed them that there is at least 1 billion people who are into that if the UX is right. But other than that, there is no YouTube alternative/competition because it's almost impossible to operate such thing profitably. In the last 10 years more and more people have come online. Video is a very important format, and YouTube has an absolute monopoly on it. Google can turn profit on YouTube now, while also controlling the entire online video market. No one else finds the ROI equation worth it because there is a very little chance they would dethrone YouTube, and it's very expensive and not at all profitable being a very distant #2.

atum47 3y ago

Relative to itself. I truly discovered YouTube back in 2016. It recommend me Ben Eater building a computer on a breadboard for instance. Great stuff. Now a days it recommends good stuff once in a while, most part is irrelevant to my taste or the content i watch on that account (i have two, just so content don't get mixed up)