Well it seems like you do agree that there is value in building a community and even stability. It's not that you refute the value, you just don't want it force

Well it seems like you do agree that there is value in building a community and even stability. It's not that you refute the value, you just don't want it forced down everyone's throats as some self-righteous ideal and measure of a man. I agree with that. edit to add: re: "...very hard to get quality stuff" lol yeah that's funny, I came back to this because "the good stuff" in my experience has to do with intimacy, and that takes some kind of earned connection over time, I don't want to make any moral argument, connections can come in various ways, who am I to say. So purely observational, interesting to think about the idea of quality (physical) connections whether there is some necessity for more "tradcon" concepts as you mention.