4 ms·

Sure, or maybe, just maybe it's because of the brazen hubris enabled by their wealthy and not the wealth itself.

ajmurmann 3y ago
I wonder to what degree the hubris causes the wealth. You need a high degree of certainty in yourself and your ideas to succeed in many ventures. I've seen people work their way up organizations who I think are much less competent and thoughtful than I'm, but they at least outwardly present themselves with certainty. Often times people liker that already got promoted away before the downsides of their decisions materialize. In other instances we might never hear about them, because nobody cares about the guy under the freeway bridge who has similar character traits to Elon Musk or Steve Jobs, but got less lucky or was slightly less smart or well connected.
carbine 3y ago
Still not a reason to completely dehumanize people.
- scotty79 3y ago
  Why not? Rich have no qualms about dehumanizing the poor. And many more of them at that. Because rich are few and poor are many.
  - ajmurmann 3y ago
    "the Rich" aren't some kind of homogenous block that all act and speak in unison. Putting people in groups like that really worries me.
    - scotty79 3y ago
      It's curious that you didn't oppose "the poor" group, only "the Rich", with capital R.
      - ajmurmann 3y ago
        Because it's much worse when you put people in a group and then attack that group than when you just group. "We need to help the poor", not very problematic. "The poor are lazy and deserve to suffer", very problematic.
        scotty79 3y ago
        You raised your shield to defend the people who have all of the resorces to defend themselves. Are you sure this is the best way to spend your time?
        ajmurmann 3y ago
        Yes, I don't want some communist revolution or othering or dehumanization which frequently is a precursor to violence. Are you sure criticizing how other people spend their time is the best use of yours?
  - progman32 3y ago
    Poor behavior by one party does not excuse bad behavior by another.
- MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  Spending $250K to go sightseeing while there are starving people in your community is an act of dehumanization in your own right. Starving? Homeless? Too bad. We have so much money that we gotta blow it to go look at this thing over here instead.
  - ajmurmann 3y ago
    Do you know how much money they donate? I don't, it might be nothing, but I also wouldn't jump to conclusions. It's not like we don't have very wealthy people like Bill Gates put significant time and money into making the world a better.
    - MisterBastahrd 3y ago
      I don't care how much money they donate, because the tax systems of the world are designed to minimize their losses versus the people who work for them. That's still money they clearly didn't need and certainly didn't earn. Bill Gates has hubris because Bill Gates has a fuckton of wealth that he did nothing to directly earn. Merely having capital yields capital results.
- predictabl3 3y ago
  I'm not dehumanizing anyone, that's just silly. It's about as dehumanizing as when I don't care when teenagers doing Tik Tok pranks suffer consequences of their ignorant, braggardly actions. So much hand wringing and I've seen about two whole comments talking about the boat that sank carrying 100x as many people while this saga was unfolding. How is it dehumanizing for me to not care about one, when virtually no one gave a single shit about the hundreds of non-wealthy people dying?
  - IX-103 3y ago
    You realize this thread is about the sub that was lost, not the thread about the ship that sunk. It shouldn't come as much surprise that people aren't talking about migrant ship that sunk. Here it's off-topic to talk about the sunk ship and the migrants that died. Here it's on topic to talk about the people on the sub that died. People should have empathy with both situations, but are much less likely to express it when they're frustrated by someone complaining about something off-topic.
    - AlecSchueler 3y ago
      Yes but the issue is that there is no thread about this ship and the many hundreds who are routinely dying are never brought up. The only time I see it mentioned in the media or in parliament is when we're discussing how we can keep them further away and shed our responsibility to them. At the same time we're being asked to support tax money going to search for these 5 risk tourists and being accused of ignoring their humanity when we simply point out the utter stupidity and greediness of their escapade.
  - carbine 3y ago
    I'm just trying to understand your philosophical position: I don't have to care about certain people, as revenge for others not caring about a different group of people? For me all human life is precious and equally worthy of effort to save, as well as sympathy and grief for their loss. I suppose that's not your position, but I don't quite understand what it is.

I wonder to what degree the hubris causes the wealth. You need a high degree of certainty in yourself and your ideas to succeed in many ventures. I've seen people work their way up organizations who I think are much less competent and thoughtful than I'm, but they at least outwardly present themselves with certainty. Often times people liker that already got promoted away before the downsides of their decisions materialize. In other instances we might never hear about them, because nobody cares about the guy under the freeway bridge who has similar character traits to Elon Musk or Steve Jobs, but got less lucky or was slightly less smart or well connected.

carbine 3y ago

Still not a reason to completely dehumanize people.

scotty79 3y ago
Why not? Rich have no qualms about dehumanizing the poor. And many more of them at that. Because rich are few and poor are many.
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  "the Rich" aren't some kind of homogenous block that all act and speak in unison. Putting people in groups like that really worries me.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    It's curious that you didn't oppose "the poor" group, only "the Rich", with capital R.
    - ajmurmann 3y ago
      Because it's much worse when you put people in a group and then attack that group than when you just group. "We need to help the poor", not very problematic. "The poor are lazy and deserve to suffer", very problematic.
      - scotty79 3y ago
        You raised your shield to defend the people who have all of the resorces to defend themselves. Are you sure this is the best way to spend your time?
        ajmurmann 3y ago
        Yes, I don't want some communist revolution or othering or dehumanization which frequently is a precursor to violence. Are you sure criticizing how other people spend their time is the best use of yours?
- progman32 3y ago
  Poor behavior by one party does not excuse bad behavior by another.
MisterBastahrd 3y ago
Spending $250K to go sightseeing while there are starving people in your community is an act of dehumanization in your own right. Starving? Homeless? Too bad. We have so much money that we gotta blow it to go look at this thing over here instead.
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  Do you know how much money they donate? I don't, it might be nothing, but I also wouldn't jump to conclusions. It's not like we don't have very wealthy people like Bill Gates put significant time and money into making the world a better.
  - MisterBastahrd 3y ago
    I don't care how much money they donate, because the tax systems of the world are designed to minimize their losses versus the people who work for them. That's still money they clearly didn't need and certainly didn't earn. Bill Gates has hubris because Bill Gates has a fuckton of wealth that he did nothing to directly earn. Merely having capital yields capital results.
predictabl3 3y ago
I'm not dehumanizing anyone, that's just silly. It's about as dehumanizing as when I don't care when teenagers doing Tik Tok pranks suffer consequences of their ignorant, braggardly actions. So much hand wringing and I've seen about two whole comments talking about the boat that sank carrying 100x as many people while this saga was unfolding. How is it dehumanizing for me to not care about one, when virtually no one gave a single shit about the hundreds of non-wealthy people dying?
- IX-103 3y ago
  You realize this thread is about the sub that was lost, not the thread about the ship that sunk. It shouldn't come as much surprise that people aren't talking about migrant ship that sunk. Here it's off-topic to talk about the sunk ship and the migrants that died. Here it's on topic to talk about the people on the sub that died. People should have empathy with both situations, but are much less likely to express it when they're frustrated by someone complaining about something off-topic.
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    Yes but the issue is that there is no thread about this ship and the many hundreds who are routinely dying are never brought up. The only time I see it mentioned in the media or in parliament is when we're discussing how we can keep them further away and shed our responsibility to them. At the same time we're being asked to support tax money going to search for these 5 risk tourists and being accused of ignoring their humanity when we simply point out the utter stupidity and greediness of their escapade.
- carbine 3y ago
  I'm just trying to understand your philosophical position: I don't have to care about certain people, as revenge for others not caring about a different group of people? For me all human life is precious and equally worthy of effort to save, as well as sympathy and grief for their loss. I suppose that's not your position, but I don't quite understand what it is.