6 ms·

Almost as interesting as this story has been the comments online. Everyone, everywhere just parroting and re-parroting the same comments, attitude, pretending

Almost as interesting as this story has been the comments online. Everyone, everywhere just parroting and re-parroting the same comments, attitude, pretending to understand the engineering with snippets from comments they’ve read, reactive talking points, etc… Very strange. Did anyone else feel like an alien following this story online?

guax 3y ago
That is standard human behaviour. We're all like this on almost every topic. Think about how much of your opinions are shaped similarly.
RajT88 3y ago
Welcome to the internet!
ilyt 3y ago
And weird focus on that fucking gamepad that they were using, which was probably the least of engineering problems
- toofy 3y ago
  i didn’t see the game pad as the cause, but an indicator of where they would cut corners. it’s strange on its face to use a game controller when we’ve all spilled soda or water on one and watched it become useless and they’re taking this into… the ocean… and just to add insult to injury, playing on offbrand controllers always irritated me so to see them cut even further was super strange. more than anything it is that combined with the stuff he bragged about buying from camper world—just a sign of strange corner cutting indicating their was likely more that we weren’t seeing.
  - masklinn 3y ago
    In a sense, the game pad was a canary (if unintentionally so).
  - ilyt 3y ago
    > it’s strange on its face to use a game controller when we’ve all spilled soda or water on one and watched it become useless and they’re taking this into… the ocean… and just to add insult to injury, I mean the buttons got sticky but that's the worst I saw, nothing a bit of IPA wouldn't fix. But yeah, definitely red flag, especially that they used wireless one. Industrial (and so protected from dust and at least humidity) ones are not that expensive compared to the price of massive carbon tube at least > playing on offbrand controllers always irritated me so to see them cut even further was super strange. Lmao "offbrand" Logitech is one of biggest makes of accessories. They have both good and cheap stuff, this one is some midrange one so I doubt quality is a problem. Also it's a PC controller, what "brand" would they be offing ?
    - HPsquared 3y ago
      Even wireless doesn't seem that much of an issue. There isn't going to be any external interference down there, so as long as they've tested all the systems it should be OK. Also it's not going to be dusty, and it's not humid (if anything the humidity is going to be very low as the water outside is cold, any moisture in the air will condense on the hull)
- babypuncher 3y ago
  The type of gamepad is important. It was a cheap third party Xbox controller. i.e. it's the spare controller you made your friend use when he came over to play Halo 2 that one time. Nobody thought the gamepad was the actual cause of failure. They thought the gamepad was funny in the context of Stockton Rush cutting corners.
jacquesm 3y ago
Not really. I work with a company that does this kind of stuff (deep see exploration vehicle design), materials science is a tricky but very interesting subject. When someone seemingly does 'the impossible', subjects paying passengers to extreme risks and throws the rulebook on safe design out of the porthole you can bet there will be an entry in 'Risks Digest' at some point or another. Carbon fiber is a great material, if used where it shines. For this application I don't think it is a good choice, even if it worked a few times. What I didn't understand is the focus on the electronics and the control system, those are irrelevant if the hull isn't going to work out.
- jcranmer 3y ago
  > What I didn't understand is the focus on the electronics and the control system, those are irrelevant if the hull isn't going to work out. Two reasons, I think. First, the (apparent) shoddiness of a control mechanism is easily understood, whereas the reasons why carbon fiber makes a poor choice for a pressure hull are more difficult to understand. Consequently, the use of a game controller is a more salient example of a company cutting corners than their choice of material in the pressure hull. (This is somewhat undermined by the fact that a game controller actually isn't necessarily a problem--Ars Technica ended up running articles on consecutive days with the first one being a tee-hee-they're-using-a-game-controller article and the second one being a why-the-military-uses-game-controllers article.) The second reason may be that some people would rather focus on the potential failure that admits a possibility that the inhabitants are alive instead of potential the failure that guaranteed their death before the search started.
- ansible 3y ago
  > Carbon fiber is a great material, if used where it shines. For this application I don't think it is a good choice, even if it worked a few times. What I didn't understand is the focus on the electronics and the control system, those are irrelevant if the hull isn't going to work out. That's all true, but the use of the Logitech game controller and and other consumer-grade electronics rightfully drew scorn of its own. I deal with automotive electronics, which is less rigorous than aerospace and/or military applications, never mind deep sea operation. Even so, in the automotive space, there is considerable attention paid to making the housings, cables and the electronics themselves robust with regards to the environmental conditions. Heat, cold, moisture, dirt, vibration, salt, etc. The idea of using non-redundant, consumer grade electronics to control a deep sea vessel is ridiculous. Just being regularly exposed to salty air could induce corrosion in critical components.

guax 3y ago

That is standard human behaviour. We're all like this on almost every topic. Think about how much of your opinions are shaped similarly.

RajT88 3y ago

Welcome to the internet!

ilyt 3y ago

And weird focus on that fucking gamepad that they were using, which was probably the least of engineering problems

toofy 3y ago
i didn’t see the game pad as the cause, but an indicator of where they would cut corners. it’s strange on its face to use a game controller when we’ve all spilled soda or water on one and watched it become useless and they’re taking this into… the ocean… and just to add insult to injury, playing on offbrand controllers always irritated me so to see them cut even further was super strange. more than anything it is that combined with the stuff he bragged about buying from camper world—just a sign of strange corner cutting indicating their was likely more that we weren’t seeing.
- masklinn 3y ago
  In a sense, the game pad was a canary (if unintentionally so).
- ilyt 3y ago
  > it’s strange on its face to use a game controller when we’ve all spilled soda or water on one and watched it become useless and they’re taking this into… the ocean… and just to add insult to injury, I mean the buttons got sticky but that's the worst I saw, nothing a bit of IPA wouldn't fix. But yeah, definitely red flag, especially that they used wireless one. Industrial (and so protected from dust and at least humidity) ones are not that expensive compared to the price of massive carbon tube at least > playing on offbrand controllers always irritated me so to see them cut even further was super strange. Lmao "offbrand" Logitech is one of biggest makes of accessories. They have both good and cheap stuff, this one is some midrange one so I doubt quality is a problem. Also it's a PC controller, what "brand" would they be offing ?
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    Even wireless doesn't seem that much of an issue. There isn't going to be any external interference down there, so as long as they've tested all the systems it should be OK. Also it's not going to be dusty, and it's not humid (if anything the humidity is going to be very low as the water outside is cold, any moisture in the air will condense on the hull)
babypuncher 3y ago
The type of gamepad is important. It was a cheap third party Xbox controller. i.e. it's the spare controller you made your friend use when he came over to play Halo 2 that one time. Nobody thought the gamepad was the actual cause of failure. They thought the gamepad was funny in the context of Stockton Rush cutting corners.

jacquesm 3y ago

Not really. I work with a company that does this kind of stuff (deep see exploration vehicle design), materials science is a tricky but very interesting subject. When someone seemingly does 'the impossible', subjects paying passengers to extreme risks and throws the rulebook on safe design out of the porthole you can bet there will be an entry in 'Risks Digest' at some point or another. Carbon fiber is a great material, if used where it shines. For this application I don't think it is a good choice, even if it worked a few times. What I didn't understand is the focus on the electronics and the control system, those are irrelevant if the hull isn't going to work out.

jcranmer 3y ago
> What I didn't understand is the focus on the electronics and the control system, those are irrelevant if the hull isn't going to work out. Two reasons, I think. First, the (apparent) shoddiness of a control mechanism is easily understood, whereas the reasons why carbon fiber makes a poor choice for a pressure hull are more difficult to understand. Consequently, the use of a game controller is a more salient example of a company cutting corners than their choice of material in the pressure hull. (This is somewhat undermined by the fact that a game controller actually isn't necessarily a problem--Ars Technica ended up running articles on consecutive days with the first one being a tee-hee-they're-using-a-game-controller article and the second one being a why-the-military-uses-game-controllers article.) The second reason may be that some people would rather focus on the potential failure that admits a possibility that the inhabitants are alive instead of potential the failure that guaranteed their death before the search started.
ansible 3y ago
> Carbon fiber is a great material, if used where it shines. For this application I don't think it is a good choice, even if it worked a few times. What I didn't understand is the focus on the electronics and the control system, those are irrelevant if the hull isn't going to work out. That's all true, but the use of the Logitech game controller and and other consumer-grade electronics rightfully drew scorn of its own. I deal with automotive electronics, which is less rigorous than aerospace and/or military applications, never mind deep sea operation. Even so, in the automotive space, there is considerable attention paid to making the housings, cables and the electronics themselves robust with regards to the environmental conditions. Heat, cold, moisture, dirt, vibration, salt, etc. The idea of using non-redundant, consumer grade electronics to control a deep sea vessel is ridiculous. Just being regularly exposed to salty air could induce corrosion in critical components.