4 ms·

>Hopefully future subs will have more safety features. From an engineering standpoint, Titan didn't have any safety features at all. What any sane engineer wou

by RIMR 3y ago

>Hopefully future subs will have more safety features. From an engineering standpoint, Titan didn't have any safety features at all. What any sane engineer would recommend as a last-ditch backup system Oceangate relied on as a single-point-of-failure. No phone. No beacon. Budget bluetooth controller and touchscreens. Electronics you'd expect to find in an RV. All from a CEO who flaunted his corner-cutting and apathy towards safety. We should never do this again. After this, anyone boarding a future tourist sub to the Abyssal Zone or deeper is asking for it.

sho_hn 3y ago
> From an engineering standpoint, Titan didn't have any safety features at all. This isn't quite true. It had multiple redundant ways to drop ballast, for example. What I would say from what I was able to find out (and with some familiarity of safety engineering processes from work; I make cars) is that it's safety-concept was very spotty. It had solutions to some problems, but also large gaps in the safety concept. Safety was not addressed in holistic fashion. It's interesting to compare this with solutions found in other subs. For example, Titan had four different ways to drop ballast, but from the list I saw, all of them required manual intervention by a non-incapacitated crew and electronics to be working. On Cameron's Deepsea Challenger--by another rich guy who funded a vanity dive, and relying on homebrew innovations in material science--ballast was held by corrosible wire that would be corroded by seawater in a set time, so the sub would eventually surface automatically. Ballast drop was also triggerable remotely by an acoustic signal, more reliable than radio. The available info is pretty bad, but Titan may not have had those solutions in place. I'm very much out of my depth (no pun intended) on naval/submarine engineering, and I'm hoping for someone with better knowledge to extend that comparison somewhere.
- jonah 3y ago
  There were apparently timed-release (bags of lead shot on dissolvable links) and manual-release (rock the sub to tip lengths of steel pipe off their racks on the sides) ways of jettisoning ballast as well.
TT-392 3y ago
You can't just have a phone that works at those depths
- psychphysic 3y ago
  I've been thinking about this problem. Would an iPod glued to the inside that played yellow Submarine by the Beatles. At what range would that be detectable? How long could it last? Edit: even better this banger on loop https://youtu.be/uzR5jM9UeJA https://youtu.be/uzR5jM9UeJA
- jonah 3y ago
  Acoustic data/voice connections are solved COTS hardware bits - https://www.l3harris.com/all-capabilities/acoustic-general-purpose-modem https://www.l3harris.com/all-capabilities/acoustic-general-p...
x3874 3y ago
Yet, there still are Teslas with comparable issues on the road, maiming unsuspecting people.
- throwawaylinux 3y ago
  What comparable issues? I thought Teslas had good safety.
  - x3874 3y ago
    Are you intentionally trolling or are you really restricted in your awareness? 'FSD' scam killing people and the myriads other problems aside: 1. https://www.autoevolution.com/news/we-need-to-talk-about-tesla-s-doors-and-their-hidden-manual-releases-189751.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/we-need-to-talk-about-tes... 2. https://www.slashgear.com/1075194/whats-up-with-teslas-whompy-wheel-problem/ https://www.slashgear.com/1075194/whats-up-with-teslas-whomp... https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/albums/72157658490111523/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/albums/721576584...
    - throwawaylinux 3y ago
      "FSD" is not a comparable issue, and handwaving "myriads of other problems" doesn't cut it, sorry. Welcome to try again if you'd like.
      - x3874 3y ago
        Why don't you get off your lazy ass and perform some own research? I am not here to please and hot-serve you or anyone else, sorry. Or spending my hours to 'discuss things through' with strangers.
        throwawaylinux 3y ago
        I did suspect you lacked the capacity to substantiate your claims with evidence. Pathetic.
mv4 3y ago
Forget safety features. Its structural design was fundamentally wrong. That's just insanely bad structural engineering. I wouldn't even buy a used carbon fiber road bike.

by RIMR 3y ago

sho_hn 3y ago

> From an engineering standpoint, Titan didn't have any safety features at all. This isn't quite true. It had multiple redundant ways to drop ballast, for example. What I would say from what I was able to find out (and with some familiarity of safety engineering processes from work; I make cars) is that it's safety-concept was very spotty. It had solutions to some problems, but also large gaps in the safety concept. Safety was not addressed in holistic fashion. It's interesting to compare this with solutions found in other subs. For example, Titan had four different ways to drop ballast, but from the list I saw, all of them required manual intervention by a non-incapacitated crew and electronics to be working. On Cameron's Deepsea Challenger--by another rich guy who funded a vanity dive, and relying on homebrew innovations in material science--ballast was held by corrosible wire that would be corroded by seawater in a set time, so the sub would eventually surface automatically. Ballast drop was also triggerable remotely by an acoustic signal, more reliable than radio. The available info is pretty bad, but Titan may not have had those solutions in place. I'm very much out of my depth (no pun intended) on naval/submarine engineering, and I'm hoping for someone with better knowledge to extend that comparison somewhere.

jonah 3y ago
There were apparently timed-release (bags of lead shot on dissolvable links) and manual-release (rock the sub to tip lengths of steel pipe off their racks on the sides) ways of jettisoning ballast as well.

TT-392 3y ago

You can't just have a phone that works at those depths

psychphysic 3y ago
I've been thinking about this problem. Would an iPod glued to the inside that played yellow Submarine by the Beatles. At what range would that be detectable? How long could it last? Edit: even better this banger on loop https://youtu.be/uzR5jM9UeJA https://youtu.be/uzR5jM9UeJA
jonah 3y ago
Acoustic data/voice connections are solved COTS hardware bits - https://www.l3harris.com/all-capabilities/acoustic-general-purpose-modem https://www.l3harris.com/all-capabilities/acoustic-general-p...

x3874 3y ago

Yet, there still are Teslas with comparable issues on the road, maiming unsuspecting people.

throwawaylinux 3y ago
What comparable issues? I thought Teslas had good safety.
- x3874 3y ago
  Are you intentionally trolling or are you really restricted in your awareness? 'FSD' scam killing people and the myriads other problems aside: 1. https://www.autoevolution.com/news/we-need-to-talk-about-tesla-s-doors-and-their-hidden-manual-releases-189751.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/we-need-to-talk-about-tes... 2. https://www.slashgear.com/1075194/whats-up-with-teslas-whompy-wheel-problem/ https://www.slashgear.com/1075194/whats-up-with-teslas-whomp... https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/albums/72157658490111523/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/albums/721576584...
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    "FSD" is not a comparable issue, and handwaving "myriads of other problems" doesn't cut it, sorry. Welcome to try again if you'd like.
    - x3874 3y ago
      Why don't you get off your lazy ass and perform some own research? I am not here to please and hot-serve you or anyone else, sorry. Or spending my hours to 'discuss things through' with strangers.
      - throwawaylinux 3y ago
        I did suspect you lacked the capacity to substantiate your claims with evidence. Pathetic.

mv4 3y ago

Forget safety features. Its structural design was fundamentally wrong. That's just insanely bad structural engineering. I wouldn't even buy a used carbon fiber road bike.