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Plus, many people can feel a certain frisson of delight or at least schadenfreude about 5 rich guys dying in a comically "move fast and break stuff" built subma

Plus, many people can feel a certain frisson of delight or at least schadenfreude about 5 rich guys dying in a comically "move fast and break stuff" built submarine and the fact that it happened doesn't really reflect any kind of deep, hard to solve, social problem. Thinking about refugees, on the other hand, is depressing and there is also almost nothing anyone can do about it. As macabre as it is, the "startup sub kills rich guys" story is just more fun.

EA-3167 3y ago
Not to nitpick, but people paying $8k to head across to Europe were not refugees, they were migrants. They weren't fleeing anything except adverse economic conditions.
- nathan_compton 3y ago
  If they were willing to risk death for it, I'm happy to call them refugees. Even if the conditions were "merely" economic.
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    I don't see how degrading the definitions of these words helps anyone.
- hef19898 3y ago
  If you really believe they have the 8k in cash, I have a deep sea rated submersible to sell you.
- hgomersall 3y ago
  "adverse economic conditions"? I suppose you have a good handle on what causes someone to pack up, leave their home and family, spend months in squalor then hand over their life savings to a bunch of sharks to ferry you across the sea in an wholly unseaworthy craft that has been incompetently maintained. I guess they were just after a job?
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    In this case? Yes. There have been plenty of interviews with friends and family from the part of Pakistan a lot of these people came from. In one case a father talked about how he begged his son not to do this, because it was dangerous and even if he made it to Europe life wouldn't be what he imagined. His son took out a ~$8k loan, made the trip, and died. Specifically he left to "make a better life for [his] family" because of economic conditions. So while you are certainly free to empathize with people taking desperate measures to improve their lives, it's important not to confuse them with people seeking refuge from imminent harm, such as government oppression or something similar.

EA-3167 3y ago

Not to nitpick, but people paying $8k to head across to Europe were not refugees, they were migrants. They weren't fleeing anything except adverse economic conditions.

nathan_compton 3y ago
If they were willing to risk death for it, I'm happy to call them refugees. Even if the conditions were "merely" economic.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  I don't see how degrading the definitions of these words helps anyone.
hef19898 3y ago
If you really believe they have the 8k in cash, I have a deep sea rated submersible to sell you.
hgomersall 3y ago
"adverse economic conditions"? I suppose you have a good handle on what causes someone to pack up, leave their home and family, spend months in squalor then hand over their life savings to a bunch of sharks to ferry you across the sea in an wholly unseaworthy craft that has been incompetently maintained. I guess they were just after a job?
- EA-3167 3y ago
  In this case? Yes. There have been plenty of interviews with friends and family from the part of Pakistan a lot of these people came from. In one case a father talked about how he begged his son not to do this, because it was dangerous and even if he made it to Europe life wouldn't be what he imagined. His son took out a ~$8k loan, made the trip, and died. Specifically he left to "make a better life for [his] family" because of economic conditions. So while you are certainly free to empathize with people taking desperate measures to improve their lives, it's important not to confuse them with people seeking refuge from imminent harm, such as government oppression or something similar.