3 ms·

At the risk of sounding unintentionally self congratulatory: Once sober for years, the largest external before and after observation was the difference in emot

by _euqm 3y ago

At the risk of sounding unintentionally self congratulatory: Once sober for years, the largest external before and after observation was the difference in emotional lability between people who drink regularly and anyone else. I'm not talking about only when drinking, but rather at any time. One of the darkest lies that alcohol tells is that its effects are limited to when it is being consumed. Instead, consider how strong its effects are when one consumes it. The strength of that effect is related to the strength of the all-the-time effect on one's brain. We can't stimulate GABA to that degree, and whatever else it does, and not expect it to have effects on, say, anger and general emotional control in the interstitial periods between drinking. Regaining one's fine emotional control, after a long-time regular drinking habit, is also a process of years that are mined with danger like excessive anxiety. If years of drinking matches a person's profile, they might seek the help of a physician to help the long-term sobriety adjustment process. Even if one doesn't feel addicted.

voisin 3y ago
How long did it take you to see a noticeable change and how long / how much were you drinking (if you’re willing to share!).
- kitsunesoba 3y ago
  Also curious. I drink, but pretty sparingly (a beer or two per month typically) and wonder where the threshold is, if there's a threshold at all (meaning any amount has these effects).
  - garciasn 3y ago
    Like with any intoxicant, volume affecting behavior depends entirely on each and every individual; full stop.
- _euqm 3y ago
  "Noticeable change" is open for discussion. Beginning of it: within six months to two years, ever increasing. A limitation reached on full re-adjustment (as much emotional control as I could get back): six harrowing years without medical assistance. Not harrowing because I craved alcohol, but due to unprecedented anxiety that came around year two or three. Drinking term: 8 binge years (late high school through the end of college). 10 casual every-other weekend years after that. Nothing really begins to change until stone sober. It's impossible to achieve it, in my experience, if deferring to other vices with the exception of caffeine. No tobacco, marijuana, etc. They will lead to felt cognitive imbalances that will unavoidably be translated into cravings. A good gauge is being able to go six months, or more, without drinking and not care / not miss it and feel the urge. Once you can do that, you're on your way. One has to gauge their true addiction level to understand if they can handle very occasional alcohol after that. If there's any craving whatsoever, I'd rate a person too addicted to partake in any and maintain control over the frequency. If there is zero craving (again, use the six months or longer gauge), then it may be possible for, say, quarterly (or less) yet controlled outings with a non-sober friend. In other words, a couple of drinks. Though, this doesn't apply to fall-down alcoholics. Even if they supposedly never feel the urge, they need to treat their sobriety like a precious jewel never to be messed with. It depends on what one's goal is. If it is addiction management, then don't even think about alcohol and stay on the program for life. If it is to regain emotional function, then it may be a little different. But the journey is still very long.
jjtheblunt 3y ago
> one of the darkest lies could that be evidence that there's an emotional or personality situation that produces the effects assigned to inebriation, and that personality situation tends to self medicate (or try) with alcohol? (correlation vs causation i guess is the question i'm wondering)
- _euqm 3y ago
  You're asking if a clear problem with emotional instability while briefly sober, across observation of virtually every subject that drinks long term, is from another cause than the substance abuse that causes emotional instability when partaking? Even given the deluge of research on alcohol's long term damaging effects on brain architecture? Sounds like you have a study to do. Everyone else will be advised to make a practical judgement until it comes in.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    I hear you: not intending to ask that. I'm asking if some subset of alcohol is abused by folks emotionally unstable as an attempt to self medicate. And I'm asking because I think i have seen some such people, but not many.
    - _euqm 3y ago
      I see. Then I correct my prior post to: definitely. Though, I think (with no comment on your choice whatsoever, it's a commonly used phrase), that "emotional instability" may not be the most helpful term specifically in regard to those who choose to self-medicate. Aside from the specific group that medicates away emotional instability caused by alcohol use. And there are probably a dozen exceptions to my statement. But aside from that group: It could be applied in place of "shy", but there's an argument that it could be overkill in that instance. And I don't think that you meant "shy". In the interest of skimming over paragraphs of potential parsing over these terms, I'll focus on a segment of people who I think meet the qualification of the spirit of your question but not the term used. People with undiagnosed congenitally conferred conditions, like ADHD and Autism, I think are prone to alcoholism. I would wager money that there is a higher incidence of Asperger's in the homeless population, for example, then in a sample of virtually any other social group aside from (possibly) any that are academically rarefied. Will they have a degree of emotional instability? Yes. Some of which is caused by the manner in which the World has chosen to interact with their differences. Regardless, the key to diagnoses and treatment is to get to the factor that underlies it. Admittedly, after a lifetime of compounding issues that's a tough task.
civilitty 3y ago
That's the hardest part about quitting: the emotional come down several days after you stop drinking. It's not even really a physiological addiction issue - that would be the night sweats - because almost any psychoactive drug can substitute for alcohol during this period, but a purely psychological one driven by emotional dysregulation. Since alcohol is the cheapest and most accessible, it just tends to be the go-to self medication. Second hardest part is that triggers are literally everywhere, especially if you don't want to hermit away for the process.

by _euqm 3y ago

voisin 3y ago

How long did it take you to see a noticeable change and how long / how much were you drinking (if you’re willing to share!).

kitsunesoba 3y ago
Also curious. I drink, but pretty sparingly (a beer or two per month typically) and wonder where the threshold is, if there's a threshold at all (meaning any amount has these effects).
- garciasn 3y ago
  Like with any intoxicant, volume affecting behavior depends entirely on each and every individual; full stop.
_euqm 3y ago
"Noticeable change" is open for discussion. Beginning of it: within six months to two years, ever increasing. A limitation reached on full re-adjustment (as much emotional control as I could get back): six harrowing years without medical assistance. Not harrowing because I craved alcohol, but due to unprecedented anxiety that came around year two or three. Drinking term: 8 binge years (late high school through the end of college). 10 casual every-other weekend years after that. Nothing really begins to change until stone sober. It's impossible to achieve it, in my experience, if deferring to other vices with the exception of caffeine. No tobacco, marijuana, etc. They will lead to felt cognitive imbalances that will unavoidably be translated into cravings. A good gauge is being able to go six months, or more, without drinking and not care / not miss it and feel the urge. Once you can do that, you're on your way. One has to gauge their true addiction level to understand if they can handle very occasional alcohol after that. If there's any craving whatsoever, I'd rate a person too addicted to partake in any and maintain control over the frequency. If there is zero craving (again, use the six months or longer gauge), then it may be possible for, say, quarterly (or less) yet controlled outings with a non-sober friend. In other words, a couple of drinks. Though, this doesn't apply to fall-down alcoholics. Even if they supposedly never feel the urge, they need to treat their sobriety like a precious jewel never to be messed with. It depends on what one's goal is. If it is addiction management, then don't even think about alcohol and stay on the program for life. If it is to regain emotional function, then it may be a little different. But the journey is still very long.

jjtheblunt 3y ago

> one of the darkest lies could that be evidence that there's an emotional or personality situation that produces the effects assigned to inebriation, and that personality situation tends to self medicate (or try) with alcohol? (correlation vs causation i guess is the question i'm wondering)

_euqm 3y ago
You're asking if a clear problem with emotional instability while briefly sober, across observation of virtually every subject that drinks long term, is from another cause than the substance abuse that causes emotional instability when partaking? Even given the deluge of research on alcohol's long term damaging effects on brain architecture? Sounds like you have a study to do. Everyone else will be advised to make a practical judgement until it comes in.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  I hear you: not intending to ask that. I'm asking if some subset of alcohol is abused by folks emotionally unstable as an attempt to self medicate. And I'm asking because I think i have seen some such people, but not many.
  - _euqm 3y ago
    I see. Then I correct my prior post to: definitely. Though, I think (with no comment on your choice whatsoever, it's a commonly used phrase), that "emotional instability" may not be the most helpful term specifically in regard to those who choose to self-medicate. Aside from the specific group that medicates away emotional instability caused by alcohol use. And there are probably a dozen exceptions to my statement. But aside from that group: It could be applied in place of "shy", but there's an argument that it could be overkill in that instance. And I don't think that you meant "shy". In the interest of skimming over paragraphs of potential parsing over these terms, I'll focus on a segment of people who I think meet the qualification of the spirit of your question but not the term used. People with undiagnosed congenitally conferred conditions, like ADHD and Autism, I think are prone to alcoholism. I would wager money that there is a higher incidence of Asperger's in the homeless population, for example, then in a sample of virtually any other social group aside from (possibly) any that are academically rarefied. Will they have a degree of emotional instability? Yes. Some of which is caused by the manner in which the World has chosen to interact with their differences. Regardless, the key to diagnoses and treatment is to get to the factor that underlies it. Admittedly, after a lifetime of compounding issues that's a tough task.

civilitty 3y ago

That's the hardest part about quitting: the emotional come down several days after you stop drinking. It's not even really a physiological addiction issue - that would be the night sweats - because almost any psychoactive drug can substitute for alcohol during this period, but a purely psychological one driven by emotional dysregulation. Since alcohol is the cheapest and most accessible, it just tends to be the go-to self medication. Second hardest part is that triggers are literally everywhere, especially if you don't want to hermit away for the process.