6 ms·

Other than awe for US military capability. What motivates this idea? Not only does it explain nothing, it requires additional explanation.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
danso 3y ago
It's not a complicated or even malicious "coverup". They hear an anomalous sound, but don't know with 100% certainty that it's came from the lost sub. What is the Coast Guard supposed to do, not do anything the past few days and say it's because "Sorry we heard a loud sound at that time and are 99% sure that those people are dead"?
- psychphysic 3y ago
  I must be missing something it seems simpler to assume "Coast guard gets report of lost sub and searches for a while". Why would you turn that into "USN knows that a sub imploded. Did nothing observable. Coast guard gets report of lost sub and searches for a while." I looked at the link, I can't see any reason to interject into that more capability than was demonstrated. It may exist, it may not. There is no reason to comment on additional capabilities based on this event.
  - danso 3y ago
    My assumption is that hearing this kind of long distance noise is well within the laws of physics and what we know of the U.S.'s capability. So I don't see this as "additional capability", but rather, am asking from a mindset of "How did they not hear a suspicious sound at the time of the missing sub?" Whether they did or not, nothing would presumably change about the Coast Guard conducting search-and-rescue/recovery operations (since they still don't know for sure what happened). Worth pointing out that private explorers, led by Richard Garriott (aka Lord British, apparently), complained that they had optimal rescue equipment but got pushback from the U.S. officials: https://archive.is/HXtFn https://archive.is/HXtFn > “Magellan has received mixed signals, first hearing from US Gov to get ready, waiting for plans, then getting told to stand down,” Garriott wrote in an email sent to Vice Admiral William Galanis, commander of Naval Sea Systems Command, U.S. Coast Guard Rear Admiral John W. Mauger, who is leading the recovery mission, Congressman Lloyd Doggett, and Representative Eric Swalwell on Wednesday afternoon. Again, hard to know if this is just standard operating procedure or not. If it's the case the U.S. govt already had things figured out by now, then it makes sense they weren't going to expedite Garriot's group, given that the search effort had already resulted in the loss of 1 (maybe 2) search vehicles: > In addition, at least one ROV, possibly two, was damaged or destroyed during the search-and-rescue mission—a testament to the difficult conditions currently facing rescuers.
    - psychphysic 3y ago
      Given military subs operate around a maximum of 500msw why would the USN have randomly coverage of hydrophones to detect implosions at depths no military sub would be at? This sub probably imploded around 1500 msw. A lot of people are saying sounds travel far under water that's true.. but laterally and not between the typical layers of the sea. Not to mention that these hydrophone systems are at critical choke points not littering the ocean floor uselessly. It seems motivated by a sci-fi understanding of the physics. Don't get me wrong things like this happen as cover ups. In this specific instance it seems driven by nonsense.
      - stochtastic 3y ago
        Hydrophones don't need to be nearby or even at a similar depth. The SOFAR channel acts as a waveguide and will duct sources from other depths as long as the bottom is below the critical depth. As others have said, this part of the North Atlantic is one of the most heavily monitored parts of the ocean as well. No sci-fi physics necessary — this has been done continuously since the 1950s.
        psychphysic 3y ago
        So basically you think that the USN should be able to detect the implosion and so must be hiding that they can do so. Rather than any information specific to this event leading to the conclusion that USN can. This is the same reasoning "UFOlogists" use to insist area 51 has aliens. 1. Aliens must exist. 2. US must be able to detect any aliens. 3. The US must be covering up that aliens exist.
        stochtastic 3y ago
        > and so must be hiding that they can do so I don't believe I said that. You can draw your own conclusion from the fact that it is within their capabilities to detect, localize, and to some extent classify a wide range of sources in this region of the ocean. What you won't find is a lot of information about those capabilities in the public domain. Just consider that what _is_ known tells us that we had these capabilities in the 1950s, and that they were continuously improved upon throughout the cold war. This is not Area 51 conspiracy speculation; it is bread-and-butter NRL stuff that is more than half a century old at this point and is classified for good reasons.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

danso 3y ago

It's not a complicated or even malicious "coverup". They hear an anomalous sound, but don't know with 100% certainty that it's came from the lost sub. What is the Coast Guard supposed to do, not do anything the past few days and say it's because "Sorry we heard a loud sound at that time and are 99% sure that those people are dead"?

psychphysic 3y ago
I must be missing something it seems simpler to assume "Coast guard gets report of lost sub and searches for a while". Why would you turn that into "USN knows that a sub imploded. Did nothing observable. Coast guard gets report of lost sub and searches for a while." I looked at the link, I can't see any reason to interject into that more capability than was demonstrated. It may exist, it may not. There is no reason to comment on additional capabilities based on this event.
- danso 3y ago
  My assumption is that hearing this kind of long distance noise is well within the laws of physics and what we know of the U.S.'s capability. So I don't see this as "additional capability", but rather, am asking from a mindset of "How did they not hear a suspicious sound at the time of the missing sub?" Whether they did or not, nothing would presumably change about the Coast Guard conducting search-and-rescue/recovery operations (since they still don't know for sure what happened). Worth pointing out that private explorers, led by Richard Garriott (aka Lord British, apparently), complained that they had optimal rescue equipment but got pushback from the U.S. officials: https://archive.is/HXtFn https://archive.is/HXtFn > “Magellan has received mixed signals, first hearing from US Gov to get ready, waiting for plans, then getting told to stand down,” Garriott wrote in an email sent to Vice Admiral William Galanis, commander of Naval Sea Systems Command, U.S. Coast Guard Rear Admiral John W. Mauger, who is leading the recovery mission, Congressman Lloyd Doggett, and Representative Eric Swalwell on Wednesday afternoon. Again, hard to know if this is just standard operating procedure or not. If it's the case the U.S. govt already had things figured out by now, then it makes sense they weren't going to expedite Garriot's group, given that the search effort had already resulted in the loss of 1 (maybe 2) search vehicles: > In addition, at least one ROV, possibly two, was damaged or destroyed during the search-and-rescue mission—a testament to the difficult conditions currently facing rescuers.
  - psychphysic 3y ago
    Given military subs operate around a maximum of 500msw why would the USN have randomly coverage of hydrophones to detect implosions at depths no military sub would be at? This sub probably imploded around 1500 msw. A lot of people are saying sounds travel far under water that's true.. but laterally and not between the typical layers of the sea. Not to mention that these hydrophone systems are at critical choke points not littering the ocean floor uselessly. It seems motivated by a sci-fi understanding of the physics. Don't get me wrong things like this happen as cover ups. In this specific instance it seems driven by nonsense.
    - stochtastic 3y ago
      Hydrophones don't need to be nearby or even at a similar depth. The SOFAR channel acts as a waveguide and will duct sources from other depths as long as the bottom is below the critical depth. As others have said, this part of the North Atlantic is one of the most heavily monitored parts of the ocean as well. No sci-fi physics necessary — this has been done continuously since the 1950s.
      - psychphysic 3y ago
        So basically you think that the USN should be able to detect the implosion and so must be hiding that they can do so. Rather than any information specific to this event leading to the conclusion that USN can. This is the same reasoning "UFOlogists" use to insist area 51 has aliens. 1. Aliens must exist. 2. US must be able to detect any aliens. 3. The US must be covering up that aliens exist.
        stochtastic 3y ago
        > and so must be hiding that they can do so I don't believe I said that. You can draw your own conclusion from the fact that it is within their capabilities to detect, localize, and to some extent classify a wide range of sources in this region of the ocean. What you won't find is a lot of information about those capabilities in the public domain. Just consider that what _is_ known tells us that we had these capabilities in the 1950s, and that they were continuously improved upon throughout the cold war. This is not Area 51 conspiracy speculation; it is bread-and-butter NRL stuff that is more than half a century old at this point and is classified for good reasons.