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> Yeah, credential inflation's a whole thing. If it were a thing, it could be a whole thing, but since it has never been a thing... What does have a measurabl

> Yeah, credential inflation's a whole thing. If it were a thing, it could be a whole thing, but since it has never been a thing... What does have a measurable impact is supply management. Artificially constraining the number of workers allowed to work in a profession does boost incomes where sufficient demand is found. Think doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. And teachers (here) are also a prime example of exactly that. The government sets quotas for how many new teachers are allowed to teach. You could be the best teacher in the world, but if you aren't among the chosen few, you cannot legally take on the job. Because such quota oversight is often administered through colleges and universities, you do find some conflation out there. But you can just as easily maintain a quota system outside of the school system. They are not intrinsically linked. We have examples of that as well.

bamfly 3y ago
For older grades, lots of states let you teach with a degree in the relevant content area—have a math degree? You can teach math. Some may require a graduate degree, but others, a bachelor's is enough. Might need to take a couple classes or do a short practicum and pass a test to get a certificate, but it's not a large burden. Not a lot of people take them up on the offer, AFAIK, and the ones who do usually don't last.
- randomdata 3y ago
  Technically, you don't need a degree. However, you must be blessed by a university which administers the teacher quota on behalf the government, and they do play favouritism towards those who have degrees, naturally. They've got services to sell after all! Areas that are hard to fill (technical classes, especially) will sometimes see allowances to any random hobo, but one must still be blessed. Simply having the desire and ability to be a teacher does not permit you to legally be a teacher. Stands to reason that where there is more freedom for anyone to be a teacher that the pay would trend lower. Supply and demand, as usual.
  - bamfly 3y ago
    Teacher quota? Wut? This off-the-wall shit is part of why people leave teaching. Being constantly criticized by people living in a fictional world, and blamed for tons of things that are simply made-up or that you had no say in, gets old. Teachers are getting to be in short supply because people aren't choosing the job, because it's kinda shit in much of the country (and it's extremely shit in a whole lot of districts). It's not as if there's a strictly limited set of residency slots strangling supply, like in medicine. Not enough people want to do it, given the offer on the table. That's the whole story. > Stands to reason that where there is more freedom for anyone to be a teacher that the pay would trend lower. Supply and demand, as usual. Some of the places with very lax standards for becoming a teacher are nonetheless struggling to fill positions. The standards aren't the problem, the overall deal—work conditions, stress, pay, seeing the profession demonized by talking heads on TV and your own neighbors—is just not good enough to get people to sign on the dotted line. You're not going to get more people signing up to teach who you'd like to have teaching without making the deal better—it's got nothing to do with quotas or whatever.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      > Teacher quota? Wut? Yes, much like the dairy quota system. The government anticipates how many teachers will be needed and only blesses that many to practice. For sure, it sometimes gets things wrong. Quotas were reduced considerably a few years back because there were too many teachers being produced, which was impacting pay. For what $60-100k is worth, it is actually less than teachers were making before that mistake (or "mistake"; some government assemblies are less friendly towards teachers than others). > This off-the-wall shit is part of why people leave teaching. Being constantly criticized by people living in a fictional world, and blamed for tons of things that are simply made-up or that you had no say in, gets old. Okay. What off-the-wall shit might that be? > Some of the places with very lax standards for becoming a teacher are nonetheless struggling to fill positions. Struggling to fill positions, or there isn't demand for the positions? Saying "Boy, it sure would be nice if we had more teachers" is no more demand than a 14 year old kid with $100 to his name and a poster of a Ferrari on his wall imaging having one of his own sitting in the family's garage. That's merely dreaming. Very much not the same thing as demand. Only demand is significant here. > it's got nothing to do with quotas or whatever. It doesn't sound like you have a teacher quota system in place in the part of the world you exist in, so that goes without saying. Obviously there is no universal standard here. Different jurisdictions are going to have different rules. But it is clear that supply management does artificially increase wages, and teachers here (not the world over) leverage it. Why do you think that virtually everyone agrees that monopolies/monopsonies are bad for buyers? Why do you think tech companies want to build "moats"? Exactly, because constraint in participation is how excess money is made.

bamfly 3y ago

For older grades, lots of states let you teach with a degree in the relevant content area—have a math degree? You can teach math. Some may require a graduate degree, but others, a bachelor's is enough. Might need to take a couple classes or do a short practicum and pass a test to get a certificate, but it's not a large burden. Not a lot of people take them up on the offer, AFAIK, and the ones who do usually don't last.

randomdata 3y ago
Technically, you don't need a degree. However, you must be blessed by a university which administers the teacher quota on behalf the government, and they do play favouritism towards those who have degrees, naturally. They've got services to sell after all! Areas that are hard to fill (technical classes, especially) will sometimes see allowances to any random hobo, but one must still be blessed. Simply having the desire and ability to be a teacher does not permit you to legally be a teacher. Stands to reason that where there is more freedom for anyone to be a teacher that the pay would trend lower. Supply and demand, as usual.
- bamfly 3y ago
  Teacher quota? Wut? This off-the-wall shit is part of why people leave teaching. Being constantly criticized by people living in a fictional world, and blamed for tons of things that are simply made-up or that you had no say in, gets old. Teachers are getting to be in short supply because people aren't choosing the job, because it's kinda shit in much of the country (and it's extremely shit in a whole lot of districts). It's not as if there's a strictly limited set of residency slots strangling supply, like in medicine. Not enough people want to do it, given the offer on the table. That's the whole story. > Stands to reason that where there is more freedom for anyone to be a teacher that the pay would trend lower. Supply and demand, as usual. Some of the places with very lax standards for becoming a teacher are nonetheless struggling to fill positions. The standards aren't the problem, the overall deal—work conditions, stress, pay, seeing the profession demonized by talking heads on TV and your own neighbors—is just not good enough to get people to sign on the dotted line. You're not going to get more people signing up to teach who you'd like to have teaching without making the deal better—it's got nothing to do with quotas or whatever.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    > Teacher quota? Wut? Yes, much like the dairy quota system. The government anticipates how many teachers will be needed and only blesses that many to practice. For sure, it sometimes gets things wrong. Quotas were reduced considerably a few years back because there were too many teachers being produced, which was impacting pay. For what $60-100k is worth, it is actually less than teachers were making before that mistake (or "mistake"; some government assemblies are less friendly towards teachers than others). > This off-the-wall shit is part of why people leave teaching. Being constantly criticized by people living in a fictional world, and blamed for tons of things that are simply made-up or that you had no say in, gets old. Okay. What off-the-wall shit might that be? > Some of the places with very lax standards for becoming a teacher are nonetheless struggling to fill positions. Struggling to fill positions, or there isn't demand for the positions? Saying "Boy, it sure would be nice if we had more teachers" is no more demand than a 14 year old kid with $100 to his name and a poster of a Ferrari on his wall imaging having one of his own sitting in the family's garage. That's merely dreaming. Very much not the same thing as demand. Only demand is significant here. > it's got nothing to do with quotas or whatever. It doesn't sound like you have a teacher quota system in place in the part of the world you exist in, so that goes without saying. Obviously there is no universal standard here. Different jurisdictions are going to have different rules. But it is clear that supply management does artificially increase wages, and teachers here (not the world over) leverage it. Why do you think that virtually everyone agrees that monopolies/monopsonies are bad for buyers? Why do you think tech companies want to build "moats"? Exactly, because constraint in participation is how excess money is made.