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Those holding bachelor's don't have higher median wages than those without, in your area? That's wild. Yikes. $60k's not so bad to start. IIRC it's still like

by bamfly 3y ago

Those holding bachelor's don't have higher median wages than those without, in your area? That's wild. Yikes. $60k's not so bad to start. IIRC it's still like $38-42k here—in a city and its 'burbs, not rural districts. They're slowly adjusting to the fact that low-end wages shot way up & inflation is hitting hard, and now their pay, which was just sad-making before, is absolutely pathetic, and their 1.5% annual bumps an insult, but they're not adjusting fast enough. Staffing's getting really tight and lots of teachers have left for 25-50% raises and less stress in other industries—and, go figure, the ones best-positioned to do that are the best teachers. Many districts are dropping to 4-day weeks to cut costs, better deal with the still ongoing substitute shortage, and attract more teachers. We're leaving for a state with pay more like what you mention, because we don't want our kids attending schools that are experiencing a slow-motion catastrophe—this state's gonna be in for a rough time in the coming years.

randomdata 3y ago
> Those holding bachelor's don't have higher median wages than those without, in your area? That's wild. Yikes. Overall median is $38k. But, again, bachelors degrees have never shown to have any bearing on income, aside from the aforementioned filtering mechanism, so what makes it wild? It is not surprising at all that regularly functioning, able-bodied, people are going to make the approximately same amount of money. The productivity potential across them is approximately the same. It is clear that those with disabilities and other life struggles which impact productivity do make less than the typical, able-bodied person, and understandably so. What would be wild is if someone's hobby they engaged in for a few years during their early adult years made a radical difference.
- bamfly 3y ago
  Ah, I see. Yeah, credential inflation's a whole thing. The GI Bill and its consequences et c. et c. Effectively paying a giant tax to make it somewhat easier for companies to filter workers, to little other benefit. ... Well, it does also keep the seeking-employment pool down, mitigating the effects of some other changes in the economy, so I guess there's that. Be better if we could figure out something else, though. Lots of better things we could spend that money (and a shitload of person-hours) on, IMO. But companies sure don't mind making others spend $10 to save them $1. > What would be wild is if someone's hobby they engaged in for a few years during their early adult years made a radical difference. For real. Messing with .ini and autoexec.bat files so I could play vidja led me down a path that did more, ultimately, for my lifetime income than nearly all hours spent on education past elementary school. It's weird.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    > Yeah, credential inflation's a whole thing. If it were a thing, it could be a whole thing, but since it has never been a thing... What does have a measurable impact is supply management. Artificially constraining the number of workers allowed to work in a profession does boost incomes where sufficient demand is found. Think doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. And teachers (here) are also a prime example of exactly that. The government sets quotas for how many new teachers are allowed to teach. You could be the best teacher in the world, but if you aren't among the chosen few, you cannot legally take on the job. Because such quota oversight is often administered through colleges and universities, you do find some conflation out there. But you can just as easily maintain a quota system outside of the school system. They are not intrinsically linked. We have examples of that as well.
    - bamfly 3y ago
      For older grades, lots of states let you teach with a degree in the relevant content area—have a math degree? You can teach math. Some may require a graduate degree, but others, a bachelor's is enough. Might need to take a couple classes or do a short practicum and pass a test to get a certificate, but it's not a large burden. Not a lot of people take them up on the offer, AFAIK, and the ones who do usually don't last.
      - randomdata 3y ago
        Technically, you don't need a degree. However, you must be blessed by a university which administers the teacher quota on behalf the government, and they do play favouritism towards those who have degrees, naturally. They've got services to sell after all! Areas that are hard to fill (technical classes, especially) will sometimes see allowances to any random hobo, but one must still be blessed. Simply having the desire and ability to be a teacher does not permit you to legally be a teacher. Stands to reason that where there is more freedom for anyone to be a teacher that the pay would trend lower. Supply and demand, as usual.
        bamfly 3y ago

by bamfly 3y ago

randomdata 3y ago

> Those holding bachelor's don't have higher median wages than those without, in your area? That's wild. Yikes. Overall median is $38k. But, again, bachelors degrees have never shown to have any bearing on income, aside from the aforementioned filtering mechanism, so what makes it wild? It is not surprising at all that regularly functioning, able-bodied, people are going to make the approximately same amount of money. The productivity potential across them is approximately the same. It is clear that those with disabilities and other life struggles which impact productivity do make less than the typical, able-bodied person, and understandably so. What would be wild is if someone's hobby they engaged in for a few years during their early adult years made a radical difference.

bamfly 3y ago
Ah, I see. Yeah, credential inflation's a whole thing. The GI Bill and its consequences et c. et c. Effectively paying a giant tax to make it somewhat easier for companies to filter workers, to little other benefit. ... Well, it does also keep the seeking-employment pool down, mitigating the effects of some other changes in the economy, so I guess there's that. Be better if we could figure out something else, though. Lots of better things we could spend that money (and a shitload of person-hours) on, IMO. But companies sure don't mind making others spend $10 to save them $1. > What would be wild is if someone's hobby they engaged in for a few years during their early adult years made a radical difference. For real. Messing with .ini and autoexec.bat files so I could play vidja led me down a path that did more, ultimately, for my lifetime income than nearly all hours spent on education past elementary school. It's weird.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > Yeah, credential inflation's a whole thing. If it were a thing, it could be a whole thing, but since it has never been a thing... What does have a measurable impact is supply management. Artificially constraining the number of workers allowed to work in a profession does boost incomes where sufficient demand is found. Think doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. And teachers (here) are also a prime example of exactly that. The government sets quotas for how many new teachers are allowed to teach. You could be the best teacher in the world, but if you aren't among the chosen few, you cannot legally take on the job. Because such quota oversight is often administered through colleges and universities, you do find some conflation out there. But you can just as easily maintain a quota system outside of the school system. They are not intrinsically linked. We have examples of that as well.
  - bamfly 3y ago
    For older grades, lots of states let you teach with a degree in the relevant content area—have a math degree? You can teach math. Some may require a graduate degree, but others, a bachelor's is enough. Might need to take a couple classes or do a short practicum and pass a test to get a certificate, but it's not a large burden. Not a lot of people take them up on the offer, AFAIK, and the ones who do usually don't last.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      Technically, you don't need a degree. However, you must be blessed by a university which administers the teacher quota on behalf the government, and they do play favouritism towards those who have degrees, naturally. They've got services to sell after all! Areas that are hard to fill (technical classes, especially) will sometimes see allowances to any random hobo, but one must still be blessed. Simply having the desire and ability to be a teacher does not permit you to legally be a teacher. Stands to reason that where there is more freedom for anyone to be a teacher that the pay would trend lower. Supply and demand, as usual.
      - bamfly 3y ago