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Teams around the world but also outsourcing. They had absolutely no issue working with people that didn't belong to the company, were less accountable, and coul

Teams around the world but also outsourcing. They had absolutely no issue working with people that didn't belong to the company, were less accountable, and couldn't be easily tested before being hired. But now it's a big issue if I want to avoid traffic jam and work more in a peaceful environment. I'm in the process of switching jobs, and when I'm offered less than 3 days of WFH, I increase my price but the recruiters still don't understand why. It's like COVID never happened and no one managed to adapt to this "old new thing" (because WFH is as old as the internet).

tsunamifury 3y ago
It’s not about productivity. This is entirely about the effects office space utilization will have on their balance sheet and the macro economy at large. You are being told to bail out CRE holdings. That is it.
- RestlessMind 3y ago
  > You are being told to bail out CRE holdings. That is it. This is such a ridiculous claim that it's hard to believe without any citation.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Do you and everyone else who keeps repeating this really believe that no one in corporate management has ever heard of sunk costs. Plenty of companies are working to downsize their real estate footprint.
  - ljm 3y ago
    Like it or not, for some it’s also just their preference and they happen to have decision making power over it. Not everything is a conspiracy and some people do actually prefer working from the office. The problem is being offered that flexibility and then having it taken away, and people are well within their rights to protest that by walking out or putting themselves back on the market. These same companies were eager to cut pay for people choosing remote work so it follows that they should be prepared to increase pay for bringing people back into the office.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    I think everyone is struggling to understand why the push for RTO is so strong. The reasons we're being given make no actual sense and contradict other corporate stances. The cost of real estate is a possibility that is obvious from the outside, so of course people latch onto that. When you have no information, you speculate.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Among the reasons I've heard is that a lot of younger workers have struggled with remote, on-boarding them has generally been harder, company culture has probably fragmented some, there can be an energy to people getting together physically, etc. You can disagree with some or all of that but it came from the mouth of a senior exec who I think was genuinely trying to figure out how to get back some in-person advantages without forcing a lot of people back to the office on some schedule.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        I've heard those reasons as well. The reason I don't believe them is that in the last couple of decades, every place I've worked has done all collaboration and communication online despite everyone being in the same office. So those purported benefits were nonexistent to begin with. So, at least in my mind, those explanations explain nothing.
- jabradoodle 3y ago
  How is an empty office that costs the same as a full one any worse on a balance sheet? May as well just downsize.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    you can't just get out of a lease by decided "i dont want to be there" COVID was only a couple years ago, and many will have 3, 5, 10 year leases. And that assumes they didn't buy and are now paying a mortgage.
- asdajksah2123 3y ago
  > How is an empty office that costs the same as a full one any worse on a balance sheet? It isn't. The random companies are spending tons of money to bail out Property Owners meme is a nonsensical conspiracy theory some people have decided to latch onto.
  - tsunamifury 3y ago
    How is an asset that costs to do nothing worse than an asset that costs to be productive? HN readers really struggle with basic financial concepts. A lease or an owned building is an asset that is utilized for income. If it is not being utilized it is now a cost with no return. That is now unneeded cost when analyzing income and investment. On top of that if owned it is marked down at its value and any real loss in value needs to be marked down as well. This is the real analysis going on. This is not a conspiracy. This isn’t complicated. It’s really basic accounting. So please think before brushing everyone off.

tsunamifury 3y ago

It’s not about productivity. This is entirely about the effects office space utilization will have on their balance sheet and the macro economy at large. You are being told to bail out CRE holdings. That is it.

RestlessMind 3y ago
> You are being told to bail out CRE holdings. That is it. This is such a ridiculous claim that it's hard to believe without any citation.
ghaff 3y ago
Do you and everyone else who keeps repeating this really believe that no one in corporate management has ever heard of sunk costs. Plenty of companies are working to downsize their real estate footprint.
- ljm 3y ago
  Like it or not, for some it’s also just their preference and they happen to have decision making power over it. Not everything is a conspiracy and some people do actually prefer working from the office. The problem is being offered that flexibility and then having it taken away, and people are well within their rights to protest that by walking out or putting themselves back on the market. These same companies were eager to cut pay for people choosing remote work so it follows that they should be prepared to increase pay for bringing people back into the office.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I think everyone is struggling to understand why the push for RTO is so strong. The reasons we're being given make no actual sense and contradict other corporate stances. The cost of real estate is a possibility that is obvious from the outside, so of course people latch onto that. When you have no information, you speculate.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Among the reasons I've heard is that a lot of younger workers have struggled with remote, on-boarding them has generally been harder, company culture has probably fragmented some, there can be an energy to people getting together physically, etc. You can disagree with some or all of that but it came from the mouth of a senior exec who I think was genuinely trying to figure out how to get back some in-person advantages without forcing a lot of people back to the office on some schedule.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      I've heard those reasons as well. The reason I don't believe them is that in the last couple of decades, every place I've worked has done all collaboration and communication online despite everyone being in the same office. So those purported benefits were nonexistent to begin with. So, at least in my mind, those explanations explain nothing.
jabradoodle 3y ago
How is an empty office that costs the same as a full one any worse on a balance sheet? May as well just downsize.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  you can't just get out of a lease by decided "i dont want to be there" COVID was only a couple years ago, and many will have 3, 5, 10 year leases. And that assumes they didn't buy and are now paying a mortgage.
asdajksah2123 3y ago
> How is an empty office that costs the same as a full one any worse on a balance sheet? It isn't. The random companies are spending tons of money to bail out Property Owners meme is a nonsensical conspiracy theory some people have decided to latch onto.
- tsunamifury 3y ago
  How is an asset that costs to do nothing worse than an asset that costs to be productive? HN readers really struggle with basic financial concepts. A lease or an owned building is an asset that is utilized for income. If it is not being utilized it is now a cost with no return. That is now unneeded cost when analyzing income and investment. On top of that if owned it is marked down at its value and any real loss in value needs to be marked down as well. This is the real analysis going on. This is not a conspiracy. This isn’t complicated. It’s really basic accounting. So please think before brushing everyone off.