3 ms·

Cool. In my city, there's a gas station chain that pays better (total comp) after a year than teaching with 10 years of experience (without a graduate degree).

by bamfly 3y ago

Cool. In my city, there's a gas station chain that pays better (total comp) after a year than teaching with 10 years of experience (without a graduate degree). The gas stations don't require any degree at all, either. I hear they're pretty nice places to work. I know because my wife heard one of her brighter students was going to do that while attending college part-time, got curious (the girl had talked about what a good situation it'd be for her) and found out the girl'd be earning more than she did, before long. You can break $100k here, but it requires a PhD or a couple master's degrees, and for you to have been in so long that you're near retirement. What's a starting teacher make in your area? How does that compare to others with bachelor's degrees? The useful comparison isn't overall median, it's what someone with the skills we'd hope even a middling teacher had, and a degree, could be making elsewhere. I can tell you that's definitely more than teachers make, at least here, which means their pay sucks. Lots of those jobs are less stressful, too.

randomdata 3y ago
> What's a starting teacher make in your area? $60k first year, $80k in year 5, $100k by year 10. > How does that compare to others with bachelor's degrees? $50k first year, $55k in year 5, 10 year information not available. But isn't this like asking how does the pay compare to others who take a vacation during the summer or some other irrelevant metric? Maybe things are different where you are, but here we can clearly see in the data that there was no change to incomes as people started attaining bachelor degrees – incomes have held as stagnant as stagnant can be – so it is not like a bachelors degree has an impact on pay. Is there relevance to the question? It is true that the school system works to filter out those with disabilities and other life struggles; factors which do impact earning potential. Are you asking with the intent to see if teachers make more than someone with down syndrome or some such condition?
- bamfly 3y ago
  Those holding bachelor's don't have higher median wages than those without, in your area? That's wild. Yikes. $60k's not so bad to start. IIRC it's still like $38-42k here—in a city and its 'burbs, not rural districts. They're slowly adjusting to the fact that low-end wages shot way up & inflation is hitting hard, and now their pay, which was just sad-making before, is absolutely pathetic, and their 1.5% annual bumps an insult, but they're not adjusting fast enough. Staffing's getting really tight and lots of teachers have left for 25-50% raises and less stress in other industries—and, go figure, the ones best-positioned to do that are the best teachers. Many districts are dropping to 4-day weeks to cut costs, better deal with the still ongoing substitute shortage, and attract more teachers. We're leaving for a state with pay more like what you mention, because we don't want our kids attending schools that are experiencing a slow-motion catastrophe—this state's gonna be in for a rough time in the coming years.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    > Those holding bachelor's don't have higher median wages than those without, in your area? That's wild. Yikes. Overall median is $38k. But, again, bachelors degrees have never shown to have any bearing on income, aside from the aforementioned filtering mechanism, so what makes it wild? It is not surprising at all that regularly functioning, able-bodied, people are going to make the approximately same amount of money. The productivity potential across them is approximately the same. It is clear that those with disabilities and other life struggles which impact productivity do make less than the typical, able-bodied person, and understandably so. What would be wild is if someone's hobby they engaged in for a few years during their early adult years made a radical difference.
    - bamfly 3y ago
      Ah, I see. Yeah, credential inflation's a whole thing. The GI Bill and its consequences et c. et c. Effectively paying a giant tax to make it somewhat easier for companies to filter workers, to little other benefit. ... Well, it does also keep the seeking-employment pool down, mitigating the effects of some other changes in the economy, so I guess there's that. Be better if we could figure out something else, though. Lots of better things we could spend that money (and a shitload of person-hours) on, IMO. But companies sure don't mind making others spend $10 to save them $1. > What would be wild is if someone's hobby they engaged in for a few years during their early adult years made a radical difference. For real. Messing with .ini and autoexec.bat files so I could play vidja led me down a path that did more, ultimately, for my lifetime income than nearly all hours spent on education past elementary school. It's weird.
      - randomdata 3y ago
        > Yeah, credential inflation's a whole thing. If it were a thing, it could be a whole thing, but since it has never been a thing... What does have a measurable impact is supply management. Artificially constraining the number of workers allowed to work in a profession does boost incomes where sufficient demand is found. Think doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. And teachers (here) are also a prime example of exactly that. The government sets quotas for how many new teachers are allowed to teach. You could be the best teacher in the world, but if you aren't among the chosen few, you cannot legally take on the job. Because such quota oversight is often administered through colleges and universities, you do find some conflation out there. But you can just as easily maintain a quota system outside of the school system. They are not intrinsically linked. We have examples of that as well.

by bamfly 3y ago

randomdata 3y ago

> What's a starting teacher make in your area? $60k first year, $80k in year 5, $100k by year 10. > How does that compare to others with bachelor's degrees? $50k first year, $55k in year 5, 10 year information not available. But isn't this like asking how does the pay compare to others who take a vacation during the summer or some other irrelevant metric? Maybe things are different where you are, but here we can clearly see in the data that there was no change to incomes as people started attaining bachelor degrees – incomes have held as stagnant as stagnant can be – so it is not like a bachelors degree has an impact on pay. Is there relevance to the question? It is true that the school system works to filter out those with disabilities and other life struggles; factors which do impact earning potential. Are you asking with the intent to see if teachers make more than someone with down syndrome or some such condition?

bamfly 3y ago
Those holding bachelor's don't have higher median wages than those without, in your area? That's wild. Yikes. $60k's not so bad to start. IIRC it's still like $38-42k here—in a city and its 'burbs, not rural districts. They're slowly adjusting to the fact that low-end wages shot way up & inflation is hitting hard, and now their pay, which was just sad-making before, is absolutely pathetic, and their 1.5% annual bumps an insult, but they're not adjusting fast enough. Staffing's getting really tight and lots of teachers have left for 25-50% raises and less stress in other industries—and, go figure, the ones best-positioned to do that are the best teachers. Many districts are dropping to 4-day weeks to cut costs, better deal with the still ongoing substitute shortage, and attract more teachers. We're leaving for a state with pay more like what you mention, because we don't want our kids attending schools that are experiencing a slow-motion catastrophe—this state's gonna be in for a rough time in the coming years.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > Those holding bachelor's don't have higher median wages than those without, in your area? That's wild. Yikes. Overall median is $38k. But, again, bachelors degrees have never shown to have any bearing on income, aside from the aforementioned filtering mechanism, so what makes it wild? It is not surprising at all that regularly functioning, able-bodied, people are going to make the approximately same amount of money. The productivity potential across them is approximately the same. It is clear that those with disabilities and other life struggles which impact productivity do make less than the typical, able-bodied person, and understandably so. What would be wild is if someone's hobby they engaged in for a few years during their early adult years made a radical difference.
  - bamfly 3y ago
    Ah, I see. Yeah, credential inflation's a whole thing. The GI Bill and its consequences et c. et c. Effectively paying a giant tax to make it somewhat easier for companies to filter workers, to little other benefit. ... Well, it does also keep the seeking-employment pool down, mitigating the effects of some other changes in the economy, so I guess there's that. Be better if we could figure out something else, though. Lots of better things we could spend that money (and a shitload of person-hours) on, IMO. But companies sure don't mind making others spend $10 to save them $1. > What would be wild is if someone's hobby they engaged in for a few years during their early adult years made a radical difference. For real. Messing with .ini and autoexec.bat files so I could play vidja led me down a path that did more, ultimately, for my lifetime income than nearly all hours spent on education past elementary school. It's weird.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      > Yeah, credential inflation's a whole thing. If it were a thing, it could be a whole thing, but since it has never been a thing... What does have a measurable impact is supply management. Artificially constraining the number of workers allowed to work in a profession does boost incomes where sufficient demand is found. Think doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. And teachers (here) are also a prime example of exactly that. The government sets quotas for how many new teachers are allowed to teach. You could be the best teacher in the world, but if you aren't among the chosen few, you cannot legally take on the job. Because such quota oversight is often administered through colleges and universities, you do find some conflation out there. But you can just as easily maintain a quota system outside of the school system. They are not intrinsically linked. We have examples of that as well.