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i would also recommend you research who came up with and popularized the CoC that everyone uses, and what comments this person had about what would happen when

i would also recommend you research who came up with and popularized the CoC that everyone uses, and what comments this person had about what would happen when popular projects adopt it. I wont tell you, as I dont want to be accused of putting words in anyones mouth, this will probably be downvoted, but go look it up yourself if you care. In general i'd say, it doesnt matter who brings information, only what the information is, given how extremely objectively poor the standard CoC is, I think it bears consideration here.

logicprog 3y ago
After a brief Google search, I think you're referring to Coraline Ada Ehmke, but I can't find anything problematic about her, what she's said, or her goals — unless you're referring to the fact that she's transgender and cares about social justice. Is that why you're being deliberately vague? Would you mind elaborating instead of vagueposting? What are your specific concerns? What is "extremely objectively poor" about the standard CoC?
- redeeman 3y ago
  i couldnt possibly care that anyone is transgender or not, but i find the contributor covenant to be a ridiculous document, that feels the need to point out a whole slew of shit that you cant discriminate against. How about just say "cant discriminate" ? or perhaps "cant discriminate against anything non-technical" ? why do I need to read a long list of peoples ailments and problems in life? why does it have to be so complicated?
  - dgfitz 3y ago
    It doesn’t. At some point this pendulum has to swing back.
- throw_m239339 3y ago
  > but I can't find anything problematic about her, They were literally _FIRED_ from Github because of a "problem" with a female coworker, allegedly. Github was like the "wokest" startup at that time, with diversity officers and what not before everybody else, after the sex harassment scandal... One can be oppressed because of their characteristic while still being oppressive toward others. edit: changed the wording.
  - logicprog 3y ago
    > They were literally _FIRED_ from Github because they abused a female coworker. Oh okay, I didn't find that on Wikipedia (it just says she was fired but doesn't say why) and didn't see any headlines on it in my search. That is bad, and worthy of firing, although I'm not sure exactly how it relates to what the GP was saying about nefarious plans for the CoC or whatever. > One can be oppressed because of their characteristic while still being oppressive toward others. Very much so. It's like people who were abused revisiting that abuse on others.
- sensanaty 3y ago
  Not the OP, but from what I remember they would seek out every possible opportunity in every single possible open source community they could find and propose the CoC that they wrote. 0 contributions to the projects, with the exception of demanding that people implement incredibly verbose CoC's in their projects under the guise of "protecting the minorities contributing to the projects". Most infamous instance is probably this one, in the Opal repo: https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 As well as this thread in the Ruby issue tracker that devolves into pure chaos with Ada refusing to actually participate in any of the valid points others bring up: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004 And I'm sure there's many other instances if you look around a bit.
  - userbinator 3y ago
    That is an extreme case, but some people are just naturally attention-seeking trolls. The right thing to do is to ignore them.
    - sensanaty 3y ago
      That's the thing though, it's hard to ignore them since they pose themselves as coming from a morally righteous place, and they have the followers to back them up with their demands. Just look at the Opal thread I posted, it's started as a demand, and then a bunch of people who've had 0 to do with Opal start spamming the thread to back up the OP and hurling insults around at all the contributors for "daring" to associate themselves with one of the most prolific contributors to the project. All of their arguments are also posed in a way to make anyone who disagrees seem like they're disagreeing with something very reasonable. It's phrased in such a way as to imply that they're in the 100% right, and if you dare disagree you're a bigot/homophone/transphobe/whatever other bad thing that can stick. Every time I've seen a project get targeted by these CoCs, all the maintainers approach it from a good place assuming no malice, whereas the ones pushing for it will NOT take no for an answer. I mean just look at one of the final comments in that locked Opal issue: https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941#issuecomment-113290222 https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941#issuecomment-1132902... They're blatantly trying to paint anyone disagreeing with them, no matter how mild the disagreement, as someone attacking them directly, and there's a scary amount of people who would side with them as well.
omeid2 3y ago
Very likely, it is a reference to a now deleted tweet by the person who popularised the CoC: > "Some people are saying that the Contributor Covenant is a political document, and they’re right."
- redeeman 3y ago
  well theres also "I can’t wait for the mass exodus from Linux now that it’s been infiltrated by SJWs. Hahahah "
fwungy 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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logicprog 3y ago

After a brief Google search, I think you're referring to Coraline Ada Ehmke, but I can't find anything problematic about her, what she's said, or her goals — unless you're referring to the fact that she's transgender and cares about social justice. Is that why you're being deliberately vague? Would you mind elaborating instead of vagueposting? What are your specific concerns? What is "extremely objectively poor" about the standard CoC?

redeeman 3y ago
i couldnt possibly care that anyone is transgender or not, but i find the contributor covenant to be a ridiculous document, that feels the need to point out a whole slew of shit that you cant discriminate against. How about just say "cant discriminate" ? or perhaps "cant discriminate against anything non-technical" ? why do I need to read a long list of peoples ailments and problems in life? why does it have to be so complicated?
- dgfitz 3y ago
  It doesn’t. At some point this pendulum has to swing back.
throw_m239339 3y ago
> but I can't find anything problematic about her, They were literally _FIRED_ from Github because of a "problem" with a female coworker, allegedly. Github was like the "wokest" startup at that time, with diversity officers and what not before everybody else, after the sex harassment scandal... One can be oppressed because of their characteristic while still being oppressive toward others. edit: changed the wording.
- logicprog 3y ago
  > They were literally _FIRED_ from Github because they abused a female coworker. Oh okay, I didn't find that on Wikipedia (it just says she was fired but doesn't say why) and didn't see any headlines on it in my search. That is bad, and worthy of firing, although I'm not sure exactly how it relates to what the GP was saying about nefarious plans for the CoC or whatever. > One can be oppressed because of their characteristic while still being oppressive toward others. Very much so. It's like people who were abused revisiting that abuse on others.
sensanaty 3y ago
Not the OP, but from what I remember they would seek out every possible opportunity in every single possible open source community they could find and propose the CoC that they wrote. 0 contributions to the projects, with the exception of demanding that people implement incredibly verbose CoC's in their projects under the guise of "protecting the minorities contributing to the projects". Most infamous instance is probably this one, in the Opal repo: https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 As well as this thread in the Ruby issue tracker that devolves into pure chaos with Ada refusing to actually participate in any of the valid points others bring up: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004 And I'm sure there's many other instances if you look around a bit.
- userbinator 3y ago
  That is an extreme case, but some people are just naturally attention-seeking trolls. The right thing to do is to ignore them.
  - sensanaty 3y ago
    That's the thing though, it's hard to ignore them since they pose themselves as coming from a morally righteous place, and they have the followers to back them up with their demands. Just look at the Opal thread I posted, it's started as a demand, and then a bunch of people who've had 0 to do with Opal start spamming the thread to back up the OP and hurling insults around at all the contributors for "daring" to associate themselves with one of the most prolific contributors to the project. All of their arguments are also posed in a way to make anyone who disagrees seem like they're disagreeing with something very reasonable. It's phrased in such a way as to imply that they're in the 100% right, and if you dare disagree you're a bigot/homophone/transphobe/whatever other bad thing that can stick. Every time I've seen a project get targeted by these CoCs, all the maintainers approach it from a good place assuming no malice, whereas the ones pushing for it will NOT take no for an answer. I mean just look at one of the final comments in that locked Opal issue: https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941#issuecomment-113290222 https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941#issuecomment-1132902... They're blatantly trying to paint anyone disagreeing with them, no matter how mild the disagreement, as someone attacking them directly, and there's a scary amount of people who would side with them as well.

omeid2 3y ago

Very likely, it is a reference to a now deleted tweet by the person who popularised the CoC: > "Some people are saying that the Contributor Covenant is a political document, and they’re right."

redeeman 3y ago
well theres also "I can’t wait for the mass exodus from Linux now that it’s been infiltrated by SJWs. Hahahah "

fwungy 3y ago

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deleted 3y ago

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