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> According to who? It is very natural to anyone making a GUI or anything interactive for the firs time. The people that do not make GUIs but apps with complex

by ilyt 3y ago

> According to who? It is very natural to anyone making a GUI or anything interactive for the firs time. The people that do not make GUIs but apps with complex behaviours. Callbacks are nice and simple. Callbacks calling callbacks calling callbacks calling callbacks (because of one of worst ideas in programming ever, function coloring) stops being simple. Async/await is just a patch over that ugliness for languages that can't do any better easily

CyberDildonics 3y ago
The people that do not make GUIs but apps with complex behaviours. I don't think there is a difference here. Callbacks are nice and simple. Callbacks calling callbacks calling callbacks calling callbacks (because of one of worst ideas in programming ever, function coloring) stops being simple. Async/await is just a patch over that ugliness for languages that can't do any better easily I agree with all of this, but they said 'callbacks are not natural'. I don't think this is a language issue either and I don't think coroutines help. Just like I said in the first comment, I think the way to go is to have a queue of events/inputs and use that because the ordering and debugging is much better and you don't get the same web of jumping to different parts of the execution. I do think that callbacks are a 'natural' and straightforward idea that most people either think of independently or understand well the first time they see it. It doesn't mean that's the best way to do it, but to say it isn't 'natural' is bizarre.
- ilyt 3y ago
  > I think the way to go is to have a queue of events/inputs and use that because the ordering and debugging is much better and you don't get the same web of jumping to different parts of the execution. If you just have stream of events that need to be decided upon in order you're in a very happy place; complexity strikes when you want to run handlers for them in parallel to cut on latency, and those handles also need to do multiple things that can be done asynchronously to cut on latency. Message passing works well here, you can just send a bunch of requests to various components then just wait for each at the moment they are needed; async/await is essentially a very bastardised version of it (and usually stuck in single thread in most implementations so no parallel computing)
  - CyberDildonics 3y ago
    I'm not sure what point you are making now. The original story is about coroutines somehow making robotic programming easier and the comment I replied to was saying 'callbacks are not natural'.

by ilyt 3y ago

CyberDildonics 3y ago

The people that do not make GUIs but apps with complex behaviours. I don't think there is a difference here. Callbacks are nice and simple. Callbacks calling callbacks calling callbacks calling callbacks (because of one of worst ideas in programming ever, function coloring) stops being simple. Async/await is just a patch over that ugliness for languages that can't do any better easily I agree with all of this, but they said 'callbacks are not natural'. I don't think this is a language issue either and I don't think coroutines help. Just like I said in the first comment, I think the way to go is to have a queue of events/inputs and use that because the ordering and debugging is much better and you don't get the same web of jumping to different parts of the execution. I do think that callbacks are a 'natural' and straightforward idea that most people either think of independently or understand well the first time they see it. It doesn't mean that's the best way to do it, but to say it isn't 'natural' is bizarre.

ilyt 3y ago
> I think the way to go is to have a queue of events/inputs and use that because the ordering and debugging is much better and you don't get the same web of jumping to different parts of the execution. If you just have stream of events that need to be decided upon in order you're in a very happy place; complexity strikes when you want to run handlers for them in parallel to cut on latency, and those handles also need to do multiple things that can be done asynchronously to cut on latency. Message passing works well here, you can just send a bunch of requests to various components then just wait for each at the moment they are needed; async/await is essentially a very bastardised version of it (and usually stuck in single thread in most implementations so no parallel computing)
- CyberDildonics 3y ago
  I'm not sure what point you are making now. The original story is about coroutines somehow making robotic programming easier and the comment I replied to was saying 'callbacks are not natural'.