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The irony here is that you're using the same kind of logic (the project can't survive if it's closed to transphobes!) that's mocked in the following comment whe

by foldr 3y ago

The irony here is that you're using the same kind of logic (the project can't survive if it's closed to transphobes!) that's mocked in the following comment when the shoe is on the other foot (LOL the project can't survive without trans people): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36430649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36430649 This does highlight the point that diversity is to some extent a zero sum game. You can welcome trans people to your project, or transphobes, but not necessarily both. (I am just using trans people as one of many possible examples.)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
userbinator 3y ago
You can welcome trans people to your project, or transphobes, but not necessarily both. You don't need to "welcome" either. You just don't talk about that stuff because it has zero relevance to your project, unless you're trying to use it as a political statement (which technical projects shouldn't be at all.)
- glonq 3y ago
  As regressive as "don't ask; don't tell" sounds, I pretty much agree. Unless it is somehow very relevant to the project, I just don't want to know about anybody's race, gender, genitals, or politics. All those things can be weaponized to become divisive. I just want to work together with other people who are passionate about great technology.
  - foldr 3y ago
    Are you sure you want race and gender in the list there? You’re going to refer to all your colleagues as ‘they’ and ask them to avoid accidentally revealing their gender? Don’t mention that you got a gift for Father’s Day! I guess they’re not allowed to put photos on their GitHub profiles in case you can determine which race they probably are. Meeting any of them in person is, of course, completely out of the question. This ‘don’t ask don’t’ tell stuff is regressive, but in discussions like this it sometimes seems to devolve into pure nonsense. No human community functions as you're suggesting. The literal content of what’s being said is so crazy that the subtext is clear: “if you’re not cis, white and hetero, then keep quiet about it”.
- foldr 3y ago
  You’re essentially proposing to do nothing and have faith that everyone will get along and that everyone will feel comfortable contributing. It’s a nice idea, but it tends not to work in practice. Left to their own devices, people will talk about things that aren’t directly related to the project. How would you propose to stop them if not by enforcing certain conduct rules? You’re effectively just advocating for a different code of conduct, whose ban on all political discussions could also be portrayed in a rather Orwellian light by people opposed to it.
  - userbinator 3y ago
    Those who try to inject politics, especially identity politics, where it doesn't belong should simply be ignored. As the saying goes, "don't feed the trolls".
    - jdiff 3y ago
      People going off topic and talking about their lives in IRC isn't injecting politics, dude, it's human.
    - foldr 3y ago
      That’s your proposed rule (which I disagree with), but how do you propose to enforce it? It’s either just wishful thinking or a different - and worse - code of conduct.
- fwungy 3y ago
  The world was better when personal sex lives were not a discussion topic of casual acquaintances. The thought of the average person having sex is repulsive to me. I don't want to know anything at all about it, especially if they're into weird stuff, but even if not. Most people feel this way. Why is it so hard to understand?

by foldr 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

userbinator 3y ago

You can welcome trans people to your project, or transphobes, but not necessarily both. You don't need to "welcome" either. You just don't talk about that stuff because it has zero relevance to your project, unless you're trying to use it as a political statement (which technical projects shouldn't be at all.)

glonq 3y ago
As regressive as "don't ask; don't tell" sounds, I pretty much agree. Unless it is somehow very relevant to the project, I just don't want to know about anybody's race, gender, genitals, or politics. All those things can be weaponized to become divisive. I just want to work together with other people who are passionate about great technology.
- foldr 3y ago
  Are you sure you want race and gender in the list there? You’re going to refer to all your colleagues as ‘they’ and ask them to avoid accidentally revealing their gender? Don’t mention that you got a gift for Father’s Day! I guess they’re not allowed to put photos on their GitHub profiles in case you can determine which race they probably are. Meeting any of them in person is, of course, completely out of the question. This ‘don’t ask don’t’ tell stuff is regressive, but in discussions like this it sometimes seems to devolve into pure nonsense. No human community functions as you're suggesting. The literal content of what’s being said is so crazy that the subtext is clear: “if you’re not cis, white and hetero, then keep quiet about it”.
foldr 3y ago
You’re essentially proposing to do nothing and have faith that everyone will get along and that everyone will feel comfortable contributing. It’s a nice idea, but it tends not to work in practice. Left to their own devices, people will talk about things that aren’t directly related to the project. How would you propose to stop them if not by enforcing certain conduct rules? You’re effectively just advocating for a different code of conduct, whose ban on all political discussions could also be portrayed in a rather Orwellian light by people opposed to it.
- userbinator 3y ago
  Those who try to inject politics, especially identity politics, where it doesn't belong should simply be ignored. As the saying goes, "don't feed the trolls".
  - jdiff 3y ago
    People going off topic and talking about their lives in IRC isn't injecting politics, dude, it's human.
  - foldr 3y ago
    That’s your proposed rule (which I disagree with), but how do you propose to enforce it? It’s either just wishful thinking or a different - and worse - code of conduct.
fwungy 3y ago
The world was better when personal sex lives were not a discussion topic of casual acquaintances. The thought of the average person having sex is repulsive to me. I don't want to know anything at all about it, especially if they're into weird stuff, but even if not. Most people feel this way. Why is it so hard to understand?