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> Reactive declarations and statements feel like powerful magic, and they are, but it’s very easy to hurt yourself by writing code that is almost impossible to

by Tade0 3y ago

> Reactive declarations and statements feel like powerful magic, and they are, but it’s very easy to hurt yourself by writing code that is almost impossible to debug, That's interesting, because one thing I'd discovered in Svelte, which I didn't even dream of seeing ever again was a legible stack trace. It literally goes all the way down to the very change that caused all the mayhem. > Svelte’s lack of protagonism I see this as a good thing. My main gripe with React isn't even its design(which I also dislike, but acknowledge the fact that the market decided on a solution), but the social aspect of being a React developer. You have to accept everything Dan Abramov says as gospel, or else you'll be ostracized. The frontend space would use less celebrities and more focused problem solving. I remember when hooks came out - everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started rewriting normal, working components to this new paradigm. Net effect of course was unpredictable performance, because hooks are only simple on the surface.

bavell 3y ago
Full stack dev going on a decade here. Stack traces and errors in React are pretty awful, fully agree there. I've never even thought about the social aspect of being a react dev - is there one? Frontend sure, but react specifically? It's just a tool, nothing to get ideological or bent out of shape over. Couldn't give a shit what Abramov says beyond what is useful in my day-to-day. There are probably a lot of junior devs who are starstruck but I've never seen any hint of ostracization (lol). There are tons of junior web devs (and more everyday) though so I can understand how one could form that perception. Yes to less celebrities and more problem solving. Hooks are fantastic and so much more composable than the class methods. I use 100% hooks and functional components in my code nowadays and it has never been easier to build and understand my UIs - especially those with non-trivial logic and state. Never had a problem with them being "simple on the surface" but ymmv I guess.
- Capricorn2481 3y ago
  I feel like there is much more hate towards people using React than hype for React itself. I agree that hooks are great, but a lot of people disagree and claim it's overly complex.
- Tade0 3y ago
  > I've never even thought about the social aspect of being a react dev - is there one? I've dipped my toes professionally in all the popular frameworks and only in React are people this hyped for every little thing. Case in point: there was a demo on Twitter - of some new feature which I don't recall - that showed how React "renders 3000 components in real time" - components being 3D polygons. Many comments praising the performance. Then an outsider asked "is 3000 polygons really that much?" And he had a point. > Never had a problem with them being "simple on the surface" but ymmv I guess. Yes, you specifically. But if you look at your typical junior to mid developer, you'll see them get into hard to debug performance issues bery quickly. It's the same issue as with RxJS in Angular - many praise it, but most understand it only just enough to get by, making a lot of mistakes along the way. I think the phrase for this is "footgun".

by Tade0 3y ago

bavell 3y ago

Full stack dev going on a decade here. Stack traces and errors in React are pretty awful, fully agree there. I've never even thought about the social aspect of being a react dev - is there one? Frontend sure, but react specifically? It's just a tool, nothing to get ideological or bent out of shape over. Couldn't give a shit what Abramov says beyond what is useful in my day-to-day. There are probably a lot of junior devs who are starstruck but I've never seen any hint of ostracization (lol). There are tons of junior web devs (and more everyday) though so I can understand how one could form that perception. Yes to less celebrities and more problem solving. Hooks are fantastic and so much more composable than the class methods. I use 100% hooks and functional components in my code nowadays and it has never been easier to build and understand my UIs - especially those with non-trivial logic and state. Never had a problem with them being "simple on the surface" but ymmv I guess.

Capricorn2481 3y ago
I feel like there is much more hate towards people using React than hype for React itself. I agree that hooks are great, but a lot of people disagree and claim it's overly complex.
Tade0 3y ago
> I've never even thought about the social aspect of being a react dev - is there one? I've dipped my toes professionally in all the popular frameworks and only in React are people this hyped for every little thing. Case in point: there was a demo on Twitter - of some new feature which I don't recall - that showed how React "renders 3000 components in real time" - components being 3D polygons. Many comments praising the performance. Then an outsider asked "is 3000 polygons really that much?" And he had a point. > Never had a problem with them being "simple on the surface" but ymmv I guess. Yes, you specifically. But if you look at your typical junior to mid developer, you'll see them get into hard to debug performance issues bery quickly. It's the same issue as with RxJS in Angular - many praise it, but most understand it only just enough to get by, making a lot of mistakes along the way. I think the phrase for this is "footgun".