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>I spent 8 years living in Vienna followed by 10 years in Berlin (a bit further below in the rating) and I don't feel my quality of life is at all lower here (I

>I spent 8 years living in Vienna followed by 10 years in Berlin (a bit further below in the rating) and I don't feel my quality of life is at all lower here (I much prefer living in Berlin) Obviously. People and individuals value completely different things for their personal quality of life than whatever variables, weights and values The Economist uses to calculate their scores. Their formula constantly puts Vienna at the top, a city which also comes out at the top of the least friendly cities for expats surveys, which is an important metric for many expats. I don't give a damn how livable a city is on paper in some random statistic, and especially if the computed livability is disproportionately biased towards the locals and against the foreigners (FPÖ, the far right party in Austria founded by Nazis, keeps getting 22% to 32% votes lately, and since it's disproportionately difficult to become a citizen to vote them out, compared to all other EU countries, so you'll be stuck in "taxation without representation" limbo, working to fund the coffers of a country where nearly a third of citizens hate your kind) My point is, livability means far more for most people than whatever The Economist measures, and I'm tired their trope keeps being regurgitated every year everywhere like it's some ground truth on livability. It's not. Livability means so much more, that The Economist doesn't talk about.

rolisz 3y ago
Where can you vote without being a citizen? I think across all of Europe you have to be a citizen to be able to vote.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  See the emphasis in my comment on the extreme difficulty of getting citizenship, meaning you'll most likely never be able to vote, unlike other EU countries were getting citizenship a very easy if you've worked and paid taxes a few years, and where you get to keep your other citizenship to not make your life more difficult should you still have businesses to solve back home.
  - jhoechtl 3y ago
    Maybe a cohesive society where only those living there long term having a vote contributes to being worlds most lively city?
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      Maybe, if all you want is your country to be a giant retirement home for the ageing locals with a stagnating economy based on Airbnbs/museums fleecing tourists to admire its cohesiveness, but maybe not, if you want your country to be an attractive place for innovative companies to set up shop and for highly skilled people to settle and replace your ageing population to ensure long term economic competitiveness in global growth sectors. Check Austrian tech wages and number of successful Austrian tech companies to see what I mean. Anti-immigrant policies and conservative attitudes towards foreigners, cut both ways. There's a reason big-tech have offices in Switzerland and Germany but not in Austria.
      - jhoechtl 3y ago
        > There's a reason big-tech have offices in Switzerland Besides ETH, low corporate income taxes and one of the most secretive banking systems ... what? On open minded society? You've obviously never been to Switzerland. Swirzerland is one of the most cohesive and closed societies in the world.
- trog 3y ago
  I'm an Australian, but I lived in the UK from 2016 to 2018. I was able to vote in UK elections (including Brexit) despite not being a citizen, because I'm part of the Commonwealth.
galkk 3y ago
> , and in Austria you can't vote in national elections if you're not a citizen I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that it is norm for significant majority of countries in the world. Personally, I think that non-citizens should be allowed to vote on local elections (up to the city level), as they're impacted by local policies as residents, but on national level it is ok if only citizens can vote.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Corrected, and as I emphasized in my comment, the difference is in many EU countries it's very easy to get citizenship after 4-6 years wile also keeping your original citizenship and not being forced into military service, so you can vote on nationals and have the chance to vote out the ultra-right-wingers. In Austria that's not the case. Any talks about easing up the restrictions on gaining citizenship, allowing dual citizenship or removing mandatory military service for citizens, end up smothered quickly by nationalistic and populist arguments along the lines of "foreigners should have to walk through glass to prove they're worthy for the privilege of becoming one of us". Becoming a citizen in the UK or Belgium is a rubber stamp in comparison.
- MrDresden 3y ago
  This is the way in Iceland. After some minimal amount of time of residence (~1 year) a person will be able to vote in the local elections. Citizenship (able to be gained after ~6 years of residency) is required for national elections.
  - MrDresden 3y ago
    (Too late for an edit so a comment it is) Need to correct that the following is how this works in Iceland: - Icelandic citizen, at least 18 years of age with legal domicile in the municipality in question - They are either Finnish, Norwegian, Danish or Swedish citizens and fulfill later half of first requirement - Any other citizen of another state that has had residency in Iceland for 3 years consecutively and fulfills the later half of the first requirement. So any scandinavian, of age, who moves their domicile to Iceland can immediatly participate in the municipality votes, while others require a 3 year wait.
deleted 3y ago
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rolisz 3y ago

Where can you vote without being a citizen? I think across all of Europe you have to be a citizen to be able to vote.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
See the emphasis in my comment on the extreme difficulty of getting citizenship, meaning you'll most likely never be able to vote, unlike other EU countries were getting citizenship a very easy if you've worked and paid taxes a few years, and where you get to keep your other citizenship to not make your life more difficult should you still have businesses to solve back home.
- jhoechtl 3y ago
  Maybe a cohesive society where only those living there long term having a vote contributes to being worlds most lively city?
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Maybe, if all you want is your country to be a giant retirement home for the ageing locals with a stagnating economy based on Airbnbs/museums fleecing tourists to admire its cohesiveness, but maybe not, if you want your country to be an attractive place for innovative companies to set up shop and for highly skilled people to settle and replace your ageing population to ensure long term economic competitiveness in global growth sectors. Check Austrian tech wages and number of successful Austrian tech companies to see what I mean. Anti-immigrant policies and conservative attitudes towards foreigners, cut both ways. There's a reason big-tech have offices in Switzerland and Germany but not in Austria.
    - jhoechtl 3y ago
      > There's a reason big-tech have offices in Switzerland Besides ETH, low corporate income taxes and one of the most secretive banking systems ... what? On open minded society? You've obviously never been to Switzerland. Swirzerland is one of the most cohesive and closed societies in the world.
trog 3y ago
I'm an Australian, but I lived in the UK from 2016 to 2018. I was able to vote in UK elections (including Brexit) despite not being a citizen, because I'm part of the Commonwealth.

galkk 3y ago

> , and in Austria you can't vote in national elections if you're not a citizen I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that it is norm for significant majority of countries in the world. Personally, I think that non-citizens should be allowed to vote on local elections (up to the city level), as they're impacted by local policies as residents, but on national level it is ok if only citizens can vote.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
Corrected, and as I emphasized in my comment, the difference is in many EU countries it's very easy to get citizenship after 4-6 years wile also keeping your original citizenship and not being forced into military service, so you can vote on nationals and have the chance to vote out the ultra-right-wingers. In Austria that's not the case. Any talks about easing up the restrictions on gaining citizenship, allowing dual citizenship or removing mandatory military service for citizens, end up smothered quickly by nationalistic and populist arguments along the lines of "foreigners should have to walk through glass to prove they're worthy for the privilege of becoming one of us". Becoming a citizen in the UK or Belgium is a rubber stamp in comparison.
MrDresden 3y ago
This is the way in Iceland. After some minimal amount of time of residence (~1 year) a person will be able to vote in the local elections. Citizenship (able to be gained after ~6 years of residency) is required for national elections.
- MrDresden 3y ago
  (Too late for an edit so a comment it is) Need to correct that the following is how this works in Iceland: - Icelandic citizen, at least 18 years of age with legal domicile in the municipality in question - They are either Finnish, Norwegian, Danish or Swedish citizens and fulfill later half of first requirement - Any other citizen of another state that has had residency in Iceland for 3 years consecutively and fulfills the later half of the first requirement. So any scandinavian, of age, who moves their domicile to Iceland can immediatly participate in the municipality votes, while others require a 3 year wait.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]